
03-01-2007, 08:39 PM
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| Member | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA
Posts: 582
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| Re: Shoulder turn and Lag.... Quote: |
Originally Posted by Neil18 Hi peeps.
I don't totally disagree with what is being said by BrianW and Jeffman. But I think that a powerful strike born from good lag and body rotation doesn't follow completely the series of unwinding from the bottom up.
Watch any good ball striker in slo-mo and there are two "first things to move" in the downswing: a) the arms drop b) the legs/hips start to turn back toward the target.
Essentially this means that the unwinding isn't from the bottom up totally. Additionally, I would add that for a pure, effortless strike the time difference between hips and shoulder turning through is negligable. Yes, hips go before shoulders, but only fractionally. So many golfers end up flipping at the ball because bottom half out-races top half and top half outraces arms. It's not that staggered.
The way I see the downswing is:
1. legs start to unwind at the same time as the hands drop to just below rib cage/sternum height, (i.e. ones torso and hips are still turned away from the target. Granted not as much as they may have been at the top of the backswing. What I mean is that the unwinding of the legs will open the hips slightly, and in turn slightly start the rotation of the shoulders, but that's gonna happen. They're all connected!)
2. Once the hands are down, the full rotation of hips and shoulders (now I'm talking about the player actively using the trunk) turn to the target to complete the swing. The arms must go with this rotation at the same time for consistency.
I mentioned earlier that the bottom half must not outrace the top half and the top half must not outrace the arms. The closer the arms can bring the hands back to form the triangle in front of the body (as at address), the more lag will be retained without having to try to hang on to it (yuck!), the less effort is required, and the less complications are added by having to use the arms, hands, wrists and fingers to square the clubface and create more speed. It just happens. Hit the ball with your trunk. The more one uses the little muscles actively, the more complications arise.
Of course, due to the hinge in the wrists, the truly last thing to come through is the clubhead, but this isn't achieved by leaving the arms behind. Arms and body turn as one. Club follows because of the wrist hinge.
EDIT:
That's why (as per original post from Golfseeker) the pro's shoulder turn appears slower than the average golfer. The torso turn waits. It's not one of the first things to go as per the average golfer. It waits for the hands to drop sufficiently for a turn of the trunk to suffice in delivering a powerful blow. Hence why they are more consistent ball strikers (those that swing it this way! Not all of them do!) | I do not think you are going to be able to tell what moves first, the hand drop or the hip move. It is pretty much a simultaneous thing but ideally I think the hip bump should come first with a very small lag for the arms to drop. Visually I think it is easier to see the hands moving when making the initial move forward. I am trying not to think consciously about moving my hands in the first move though. I am trying to just let my arms go when I get to the top and allow the hip and shoulder turn to bring the hands/arms down.
Last edited by jambalaya; 03-01-2007 at 08:41 PM.
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