Update - shorter irons round 1

doppelganger · #1 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 04:02 PM

So, I went out on the course yesterday to give my "shortened long irons" a whirl. Unfortunately, I only had time for 9 holes... oh well. Anywho, I managed a 39 (4 bogeys, 1 birdie & 4 pars). You guessed it, my putting still needs polishing. But, and this is the important part, the shortened irons felt and played great. The pro told me prior to cutting the clubs that this would result in a loss of distance. Well, the way I see it, I gained distance because there are no more fat shots. Instead of a fat 3 iron at 160 yards, I get a clean 210 yards. Ha! Anyway, I just thought I'd share this moment of epiphany with you guys.

LowPost42 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 04:45 PM

Welcome to the premise of TLT (True Length Technology).

Distance isn't lost as on-center hit percentage goes up. Sweet spot trumps length (and/or swing speed) every single time.

Here's to improved putting and lower scores!

doppelganger · #3 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 05:21 PM

Thank you LowPost!

I just got a quick question which I'm sure you can answer. When the 3, 4 and 5 irons are cut to match the 6, do those respective shafts meet the 6 iron shaft in regards to its properties? Or, if I really wanted to have the same properties (for sake of discussion only), would I need to reshaft those irons with 6 iron shafts? Is my question clear enough?

LowPost42 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 06:46 PM

You'll find that the shafts will play relationally stiffer (because they're shorter than they were).

If you truly wanted to have the same shaft, you'd add weight to the 3,4, and 5 iron heads so that they weighed the same as the 6 iron head, then installed 6 iron shafts in them. The headweights, lengths and flexes would then be equal.

I haven't fully investigated it yet, but preliminary observation says that having proper lengths is more important to ballstriking than a proper shaft stiffness (ie if I could only have one, I'd take proper length).

bill reed · #5 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 07:57 PM

hi Lowpost
i can see the advantages of having a one length set of irons as you only have one stance and set up for each club. no leaning over more on the short iron or standing taller with the long irons.
but! theres always a but? if you get fitted for a set of clubs then you should be fitted right through the range and not just say a 6 iron as most do.
if you were to get fitted correctly then it could be that shorter long iron say to 1/4 inch in steps over a few clubs could give you the same results as a one length set of iron's. also changing the lie of the longer iron and the shorter irons also come into it.
you also have Ping with there ATW shafts that have matched weight to heads so the longer iron shafts are a lot lighter than the short iron shafts and the long irons have a different flex to the short iron, the short irons being much stiffer.
all your top Ping pros are using this new ATW shaft in there clubs and you see the results Ochoa and Mahan are having.
they have also just brought out a new driver the Ping rapture V2 and it will sell at £350 i heard that is what Ochoa and Mahan are now using it and has been this last 2 month.
cheers
bill

LowPost42 · #6 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 08:49 PM

Hi Bill,

TLT is not SL - it works on variable lengths to always hit you in the hands in your one, best, athletic stance.

I read an interesting piece about dynamic balance a while back. It stated that we have finite energy to spend each swing. More than just used to swing the club, this energy is also used to fight gravity (ie keep us from falling down). It went on to say that more energy could be directed at swinging the club if you were in balance - in other words, if you used less energy simply trying to fight gravity, there was more available for club swinging. Perhaps that's why all my best strikes come from me being balanced, swinging while balanced and finishing in balance.

Fitting for a 6 iron worked at one time. When all you did was build to half inch steps between clubs, you simply found the best 6 iron and then mated all clubs to it. Nowadays we know that it's not right - especially when it comes to the ends of your iron set. You may need flatter than the progression in your long irons and more upright in your short irons by virtue of both their length and heft. If you get a classic 'off the rack' set, by all means hit EVERY CLUB off the lie board. I guarantee you at least one will need to be bent, if not the whole set.

The amazing thing with TLT is that we 'raw build' to a set progression in lie angle, and we have corresponding lengths for those lies. What has been observed time and again is that it's the exception that needs further bending, not the rule. Wedges are the most tweaked as different players use them for different things (I myself play my 2 wedges shorter and flatter than my TLT spec; but I also don't use them for a full swing, either). When fitting, I use a 4 iron, 7 iron, and PW. I roll through a couple series and see what works best. Then I build to spec. There's really no need for a 'test iron', although I build them if asked. Most folks simply 'test it' and realise they hit it as well as my fitting clubs. When the set is finished, I still go through final lie testing. But there's usually none needed (except, like I said, in wedges).

Ping is getting close with their ATW shafts, but they're still targeting a SW match versus an MOI match. As I've stated before, SW is too caught up on the balance point and is easily manipulated through back-end weight. MOI recognizes that weight at your hands does little to change your clubhead feel (the easiest way to fool the swingweight scale).

With the new V2 and the latest Mizuno driver, look to see who has the patent on the face design.

The answer is "nobody" - Tom Wishon developed the tech and used it in his 919THI driver. To use marketing talk, it's the biggest 'sweet spot' the driving world has ever seen. You'll never see a commercial crediting Mr. Wishon with its inception though. You'll just hear about how super-duper forgiving the latest driver is.

bill reed · #7 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 09:52 PM

hi lowpost
great post with a lot of interesting information.
with Ping and there ATW shafts the do have an advantage over many others with there weighted port on the cavity and also the tungsten weight out on the toe so its easer to changed the weigh and also how the ball flies buy changing the weighted port or the tungsten weight in the toe. i think this set up does lend its self more to using ATW shafts.
with regards Tom Wishon, he had been ahead of the game for so many years and i think his work on drivers have been copy and tweaked for years and he never get the credit he deserves. i have a great deal of respect for Tom and his knowledge and research and his designed clubs.
cheers
bill

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