Clubbing to elevated/de-elevated greens

Hello all, this is my first post. I am 17 (and change) handicap that my pro says should be shooting in the 70's. I'm getting there. I would like to start off with a non-golf quote.

From Dave Barry's "19 Things That It Took Me 50 Years To Learn":

13. You will never find anybody who can give you a clear and compelling reason why we observe daylight savings time.

I have heard many times that you must club up for an elevated green and club down for the opposite. Ken Venturi said it should be 1 club for every 25 feet of elevation change.

People have tried to explain why this is, but just like Mr. Barry, I'm not convinced. Would anybody care to explain it, ala Denzel Washington (Philadelphia), so a 4 year old can understand it?

Thanks,

Hillska

Pictures always help....

Attached Images

golf-elevation.jpg (14.3 KB, 19 views)

Greg,

Thanks for the visual aid. This brings up a couple of more questions.

As the loft of a club increases, this effect would seem to lessen. That is, a wedge, which travels it's 110 yards and the then drops straight (or nearly straight) down would not really be affected by an elevation change, correct? Could you make another drawing using a P wedge and 9 iron?

Also, as the elevation change increases, a point of diminishing effect would occur. For example, it seems to me that the most you might ever have to club down would be 2 clubs, because at some point the ball will eventually be dropping straight down, and no extra yardage would be gained.

Further, on an elevated green, would you not also get a more roll since the ball is coming in more shallowly?

If my logic is flawed I would appreciate someone pointing out what I have missed.

Severe elevation changes such as this are rare, but I do have a course near me with a short (120yard) par 3 with an elevated tee of perhaps 30 yards on which, if I club down even 1 club, I am always short.

Thanks again.

Correct. As you get closer, the more loft you get and the less horizontal shift there is, but you probably never get to a perfect vertical free-fall, except in extreme altitude drops. So a 9i-PW is maybe 15 ft of vertical difference, and PW-SW is maybe 7 ft. (All guesses).

Yes...more roll will happen, but not too much more.

Not too make a confusing subject more confusing, BUT..lol..you also have to consider where you are hitting from, the tip Venture was giving is not from a tee box, it was from the fairway where hitting to an elevated green, was also hitting uphill, where the club is by definition uphill, has more loft then from a level lie. Hitting from a level lie..Tee box..and the difference in elevation is not near as drastic.

Example..hitting a normal 8 iron uphill, in effect changes that 8 iron to a 9 iron distance. Take Greg's picture, and tilt it as if hitting uphill and you will see a much more drastic change in flight. Same for downhill. So you must factor in the lie as well, which will have a bigger effect then elevation.

Actually, the tip I saw was in fact a par 3 of 185 yards with an elevated tee, but I quite take your point. The lie will change things to the point where an uphill lie might negate a de-elevated green.

Venturi did say in his tip that if you were to play in a competition you would want to play a few rounds beforehand so you could zero in on the right club on a particularly pesky hole.

In this tip (from his "Stroke Savers" series, on a dvd I got from MasterGrip) I thought it was interesting that, after explaining that 185 yards was normally a "big 4 or maybe even a 3" (remember, this was the '70s lol), because the tee was elevated 50 feet he was using a 6, he still went past the hole by a good 5 yards. I once heard Tiger say that gauging elevation changes was sometimes still just guesswork.

What I need to do is talk to an engineer who plays golf.

Thanks again for the responses.