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My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

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  • My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

    Hi guys, I'm Anthony. You may have heard of me on other golf forums across the land. I'm the guy that has made the crazy goal of trying to duplicate Hogan's swing. Or, to see how close I can come to duplicating it. I try to post on EVERY forum that has Hogan talk going on. Trying to learn more about his swing, and I also hope to run into someone that may be doing the same thing as me. I wanna find out what roadblocks they ran into. I've only been in the game since 2007, but since I found out about the Hogan swing this past July, I've been hooked.

    I've been keeping a journal for the past few months. I have it posted on other forums. Not sure if you want me to post the whole journal here too; it would kinda give you the whole story of where I started, and how I've progressed (although, some don't call it a progression at all lol). My swing is still nowhere near Hogans, but I've learned a lot of cool things along the way. For the first few months, all I've been doing is a lot of experimenting with different swing changes to get a better understanding of what is going on in Hogan's.

    Also, moderator, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this kind of thread. What I have is more of a swing journal. Let me know.

  • #2
    Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

    Ok. I'm getting ready to post the swing journal and videos. I started tweeking the swing in July of this year. Been dabbling in the game for 4 years.

    Hopefully, I can get near Hoganism within a couple of years.

    First off, here are the common questions I always get. I figured I would get this stuff out of the way so I don't have to keep answering all the "why would anyone be crazy enough to do this" kind of questions:

    1. Is your primary goal to have a swing that visually replicates Hogan's as closely as possible or to improve your game? Yes, visual replication is the goal, and if I am able to get the visual down, then that has to, in some way, give an indirect ballstriking result. And by visually, I mean putting my swing vs Hogans, side-by-side on a screen, and step through it frame-by-frame. If the positions are close, then I am making progress. I think game improvement will be an indirect, but automatic occurance.

    2. Why did you chose to use Hogan as the example? Because I like the way the swing looks, and I've never seen any other ordinary person have a swing that looked aesthetically as his. It's the most eye-appealing to me. If I had to pick a player of today, it would be Rory McIlroy, but again, this is not based on wins or performance or driving distance or any of that kind of stuff.....only the aesthetics.

    3. Why don't you just put all the effort into the "swing you were born with," rather than focus on trying to change your "natural swing" into someone elses?I am confused as to how people come up with the definition of "natrual swing." To me, there is no natural swing that you are born with. Just depends on what you observed, or what you were told that "correct" was.

    You weren't born with any type of predisposed "golf swing" built into your DNA. You learned it. If you grew up never ever seeing anyone speaking of, or playing golf, and someone handed you a club, you would just stare at it, and have no idea what it is for. You would either have to have someone tell you how to use it, or observe it being used. If they told you that you swing the club by squatting your butt all the way to the ground, then jump up and spin around in two circles, this would be your "natural" swing. And if you practiced the heck out of it, and burned it into muscle-memory, you could play golf with it.
    There are natural ROM's for each of us, but not a specific golf swing. Regarding the "effort" queston, I do think I could tweek the "natural" swing I have developed over the past 4 years into scratch. But, I have decided that I don't like the swing "accent", and now want to change it. Naaaah, let me reword that.....I don't see anything wrong with my original swing accent, but now I want to see if it is at all possible to learn a new one.

    4. How long is this experiment going to take? Do you have a timetable you would like to get it done or are you just taking it as it comes? I have no timeline. 3 months, 3 years, 3 decades, 3 lifetimes, who knows?? I will let you know how long it took when I am done. Goal is to see how close I can come to duplicating it. I don't know what "close" means yet. Don't have enough data. But now I think it will be a lot sooner than I initially guessed because with all the experimenting, I have stumbled onto a few things that I never would have thought happened in the swing. Most of them are "what you feel is not real" kind of stuff. I still don't have a solid training program put into place, but a lot of lightbulbs have gone off. Once I get the training program in place, the repetition will be the key.

    5. What is your reason for not taking any practice swings on the course when you play? Because for me, this gives the feeling that I am "unsure." That I have no confidence in what I am about to do. Yea, Yea, Yea..... I know why the pros do it; to get a mental feeling of how they want the shot to play out; visualization. But at my level, this is not the case. How many times have you gotten out of bed in the morning and gone to brush your teeth? Did you hold the toothbrush and do a practice movement? Did you visualize how you would move the toothbrush from left to right, up and down? Or did you just put toothpaste on the brush, and go to brushing. Same for all the other thousands of things you do in life. I want to get on the tee box and have the same confidence that I have when I get in my car and turn the key. I just turn it lol.

    6. When you are on the course, I'm assuming you would be working on your Hogan replication swing? Lol, I wanted to give you an answer of "duuuh," but you might have taken it the wrong way lol. The politically correct answer is..........Of course.

    Regarding the "natural swing": I think is whatever someone showed you it should be, or whatever you observed and told yourself it should be. If you only saw Charles Barkley's swing as you grew up as a child, and when you went to the course, everybody else swung like Charles Barkley, and when you watched golf on TV, everybody swung like Charles Barkley, and when you signed up for lessons, the golf pro only taught the Charles Barkley swing, you would think that this is the natural way the golf swing is done. And you would do it the same way.

    7. If there was nothing wrong with your original swing "accent" , you should have been pretty damn good. Were you? I have never made an attempt at being good. I only played to hang out with family and friends.

    8. To me this all sounds like someone was getting frustrated that he was not getting any better and decided to try and replicate a pro's swing in hopes of getting better. Ok.

    9. Height/weight?? 5'7.5" (I always say 5'8"), 175lbs.

    10. This is absolutely idiotic. WTF! Utterly ridiculious!! Are you insane or have you lost your mind? Lol.....of course I have, but I didn't believe it until my wife told me too lolol.

    Overall I have no idea what I am doing, and this is nothing more than a fun science project. Is anyone else out there as idiotic as me trying to copy a swing lol?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

      Here's my baseline video:


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq0GhA0vPwE[/

      Many out there say it is not possible, because he had a secret.......I say there is no mechanical swing secret, just mental secrets and secret feelings. All the "secrets" are in his videos!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

        Take 2 video.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZTTP4jxOyU

        7i DTL

        Takeaway is much too far inside.
        Transition is over-the-top
        Pivot doesn't keep moving.
        During practice, if I pause at the top for 2-3 seconds, everything comes together nicely; no over-the-top.Gotta figure out how to make the same result when making a full, non-stop swing as is in this video. Whew......I have a loooooong way to go. I do notice a difference in my follow-thru....its a lot higher; I can no longer swing a hybrid, or 5w, or 3w in the basement because of the club now hitting the ceiling. This was not happening in the past.
        Last edited by Hogan Project; 01-02-2012, 10:39 AM.

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        • #5
          Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhoAW6aikcc

          In the 'Take 3" swing, focusing on the takeaway. Trying to understand why right shoulder keeps rising while taking it back. Gotta do more to keep right shoulder down.

          The funniest part of this video is swing #3, where I wanted to really FEEL my elbow jabbing me into my side during the downswing; doing this caused the club to move in towards me, which moved it away from the ball. I hit it just off the toe, and ball went flying sideways and bounced like a pinball around the garage, including into the ceiling above, which is our master bedroom, where my wife is lying in the bed. lol, I thought I had put my eye out. This is where my Mom would have said, "Mr. Anthony, you know we don't hit or throw in this house!!

          The part you don't hear is when my wife yells "What are you DOING down there????? The sane people are trying to SLEEP!!!!!!!!"

          LOLOLOL!!! I may have to set up a secret camera while I'm practicing to catch her hilarious reactions and comments!
          Last edited by Hogan Project; 01-02-2012, 10:39 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

            Here's my 'Take 4' video. Was experimenting with the famous Hogan concentration drill.
            8-22-11. 10:45pm before bed. 7i DTL and FO

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbiBdI1PayY

            After watching this video, I laughed out loud that I had worked for an hour on getting the takeaway kinda in the range I wanted it to be in, and was satisfied for what I had put into it. Then I make a final recording of the full swing (the 'Take 4' swing), and I am nowhere near what I practiced for the hour. Old habits are hard to get rid of. New habits take time and repetition. Will do a few swings in the a.m. and make sure I have an understanding of what the takeaway should feel like..........then practice it for a month......or two......or six...............or thousand.
            Last edited by Hogan Project; 01-02-2012, 10:40 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7GPdyU_xyo

              In the 'Take 5" swing, still focusing on the takeaway. Didn't have but a minute to swing this morning; had to take daughter to school for a special function. Once we were about to walk out the door, I literally ran to the basement to get 60sec worth of takeaway on video. This is actually the best way to see what your real swing looks like, just grabbing a club and doing one, single swing, rather than rehearsing with 25 swings to "practice" for a video. I proved this to myself last nite; I did about 200 takeaways until it looked good, then took a 20min water/food break. I came back to record 1 last swing to confirm that the takeaway was perfect, and my muscles lost their memory while I ate grilled chicken, brown rice, and green beans. Or maybe there's something genetically engineered into todays foods that automaatically erases all Hogan swing thoughts lol.

              Analysis: still don't understand the correct feeling. Right shoulder is still rising. When I slow things down and compare to Hogan, his right elbow appears to bend the instant the takeaway starts. Mine takes a second for the bend action to start. Even with this "wrong" move of mine, my club is very close to the plane line, but if I'm gonna match Hogan. I need for right shoulder to NOT rise.

              Next practice session, I'm gonna focus on the right elbow bend and tweak it till it's right. That's the hard part; what feels right to me does not match what I am trying to do. Just another lesson of "what you feel is not real".
              Last edited by Hogan Project; 01-02-2012, 10:40 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S4fOp1NId0

                Got tired of working on the takeaway for the past 2 weeks. Wanted to play around with the full swing. I apologize to everyone following me, as I am not supposed to be thinking about impact till sometimes next year! Couldn't help it...........It has rained for the past week and I can't get to the course. Had to get some swings out of me. Also experimenting with a new camera angle.

                I saw a still photograph of Hogan at impact and had an "aaaahhhhhaaaaHHHHHAaaaaa" moment. His supinated left wrist got me veeeeery curious, and I began experimenting with a few things.

                My swing has changed dramatically in the past few weeks. I am absolutely smashing the ball into my homemade range. The ball sounds different when hit by the club, and the canvas "pops" when the ball pounds into it. When swinging in my basement, I now cannot complete a full swing because of the club wanting to fly up into the air during the follow-thru. Tearing a nice hole right into my HVAC ducts. I've GOTTA get to the course!!!
                Last edited by Hogan Project; 01-02-2012, 10:40 AM.

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                • #9
                  Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                  Felt like experimenting with the impact area. Here, I am playing around with one of my custom-designed hip n elbow drills.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3-9FlsQjoQ

                  Tomorrow, one of my golf buddies is coming to town for the day. I FINALLY GET TO GO TO THE COURSE....YEEEEEEEEHAAAAWWWW!!!!!!!!!! I get to see what the ball does coming out of the grass instead of from my basement floor. The downside..........I still don't have an iPhone to take to the course to do any recording. Hmmmmmm, I wonder how I would look setting up a laptop on the first tee box??
                  Last edited by Hogan Project; 01-02-2012, 10:40 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyLTu8xqrLc

                    3wood. Back focused in the takeaway. I've been wandering around the Nile for the past week. Playing around with lots of drills. Gotta get back on track. The takeaway is improving, but still not where I want it to be.

                    0:45 Right shoulder still easing itself up. I understand why this is happening now, just gotta work on it.

                    1:50 Club plane is different. Hogan's is turned down to line more. His wrists have hinged differently than mine. If I get to the top with less of a cupped left wrist, my club is right in the area as his. Gonna stay with the cupped wrist for now, but will learn both versions later.

                    During the takeaway, the top of my head is moving towards the target. Looks and feels kind of stack-n-tilty. Next phase of the takeaway is to cure these misses.
                    Last edited by Hogan Project; 01-02-2012, 10:41 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyXcf1zoHDU

                      Whew......it's been a while since my last video. Been busy with kids, wife, business, and life. I'm still working on the takeaway/upswing in the early morning and late evening.

                      In this vid, I'm still focusing on the takeaway. It's getting more comfortable, but there are still a few areas of it that need tweeking. I have been out on the course a few times, and I am absolutely amazed at how the ball is flying off the club, and how it is sounding. I can hear the ball as it bullets away from the ground. Has a whir sound.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkZptmHbXy4

                        I've been working on the DTL view for past couple of months. Now, ready to move on to my next camera angle. I will be doing EVERY camera angle of EVERY video I can get into my posession. That includes Down-the-line, Front-On, Rear, Overhead, Right-Front, Left Front, grid, etc.

                        Still focusing on the takeaway/upswing. As you saw in the DTL Take 9 swing, I was getting close, but when you see things from a different angle, such as in this elevated view of the Front-Right side, many flaws jump right out of the screen. This is expected, and will happen as I move on to other camera angles. Just part of the territory.

                        0:00 to 2:28 : is the initial recording; you can see that my right arm/elbow are doing some strange things, and my left arm isn't straight as it should be.

                        2:33 to 7:15: After about an hour of tweeking and retweeking, I was able to understand how to make the necessary changes that I was satisfied with for now. I understand what the movements feel like.....and what I feel is not real. Now I need to put in whatever amount of practices to further ingrain the feeling. The cool part about this is that I am still able to do my old swing movements. Kinda like if someone were learning a 2nd language.......they can speak the 2nd language fluently, but somehow their original language is still hiding in their throat lol.....

                        Other glaring issues:
                        - my impatient left knee
                        - my impatient hips
                        - my leaning head
                        - my low pants/belt buckle
                        - and another 25 issues that nobody else may see, but I do.

                        This is getting fun!!! On second thought, I'll probably be stuck working on this camera angle for a couple of months.........hmmmm...the fun just ended.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLi1l73sw0w

                          This vid is all about the right leg. I noticed something really different about it in all the past videos. Made a change; now, it feels like I am opening the right leg as the club comes down.

                          Also, major grip change. The left wrist now has left thumb going straight down the shaft at address, and the face of the club is VERY, VEEEEEERY open. So open, that I was afraid to swing, because I thought ball would go into the basement brick wall to the right. Took me about a week to get the guts to make a full swing, but when I finally did, contact was EXTRA solid. Wish I could try this new setup on the course!!

                          Regarding the transition, I know and understand what Hogan is doing, but I'm not focusing on it in this video.

                          One issue I'm having with the basement is that I am unable to make a full follow-thru because of club wanting to explode upwards as it comes out of my left shoulder. I'll deal with it till March.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E

                            Experimenting with the transition. Why isn't the transition happining better? Because I am stinkin scared! I haven't gained enough confidence to turn my shoulders away from the ball as I should be. I'm turning maybe 75% worth, when it should be 100%. What is the fear?? Hard to explain, but the further I turn away from the ball, the more I think I won't be able to get back to it and square the face. With the face this open at address, it just doesn't seem like I will get it closed, and the ball will shoot rightwards, then ping-pong around my basement and clock me in the groin or eye! My mind knows this is just not true, but my mind and body still haven't become trusting friends yet. Then Kim will have another official "I told you so" moment, and yap yap yap about me hitting a ball in the house in the first place lol. Sooooooo, until I get enough courage to make a full shoulder turn, I will be a bit over-the-top as I come down.

                            How have I proven this fear theory? When there is no ball in front of me, I easily make a complete turn, and the transition looks goooooooood.

                            My plan was to work on the swing for a couple of months without a ball, but at the end of those two months, whenever I decided to put a ball in front of me, I would probably turn from tough manly-man, into fragile-flower-man. So I will keep the ball there..................for now.

                            0:00 5-iron DTL
                            0:25 5-iron FL
                            0:58 5-wood DTL
                            1:10 1-wood DTL
                            1:48 450cc Driver DTL (ball sitting on mat, no tee)
                            2:15 5-metal DTL
                            2:22 5-iron FL slow mo replay
                            2:48 5-iron DTL slow mo replay

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                            • #15
                              Re: My try at duplicating the Ben Hogan Swing

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sf5bRMk25k

                              In this video, I was just playing around with a few things that felt nothing like a golf swing. During my analysis, I ran the slow-mo a few times just to see how ridiculous the swing looked, and was shocked to see that I was SOMEHOW getting close to the angle-hinged position. I WISH I KNEW HOW I WAS GETTING THERE!!!!!!!! It would be so helpful if I could just type exactly what I am doing, but I have no idea right now.

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