shooting under par

that site says "The answer, according to an exclusive Golf Digest study of 90 average golfers playing a PGA Tour course, is all of the above"

people tell me i shouldn't "obsess" about my driving distance. but the reason i do is "all of the above"..... if i can't avg drive 280 then i keep practicing utill i can (i have before so i know it is a posability) not that driving distance is the key to winning, but if somone drives 250 and the other drives 280 and they have 250 left on hole i have 280 well if they can probly 3w onto green 250 and they are good, if i cna nly drive 250 then my 3w is porbly about 220 so that leaves me 30yds still to pithc, then to putt that is 3 strokes for me to get on the green, where he has only 2 so he is already one up on me. so you have an outstanding short game to even try to compete and hope his short game sucks..... and on a par 3 if it is 205 he is hitting a 5i, and i am hitting a 2i and i suck at hitting a 2i so that makes me hitting a 5w or a weak 3w which is alot harder to place then a 5i. having a short drive means all your clubs are short. and with par 3's and 5's being the distance they are i think 280 drive and a 200 5i is the distance is a must if you want to play scratch.

what do you guys think is the min distances for the 5i and driver to play scratch?

I've seen lots of short golfers play in the low 70's.

It really depends on the length and difficulty of the course and type of course. My guesses are, for a typical PGA tour course playing around 69-7100 yds, I would say 270 for drives (about Fred Funk length) and 185 to 190 for a five iron. For the seniors, averaging around 65-6600 yds, probably about 260 minimum and 180-185 five iron, for the LPGA averaging around 63-6400, around 250 drive and 175 to 180 five iron. My guess is the average publice golf course on a weekend is set up to about 63-6400 yds from the white tees and 65-6600 yds from the back tees.

Yeah but take today as an example, woods was outdriving shaun macheel by 30 yards if not more and macheel beat him 4&3!

I know a man called colin bradley at my club who drives it about 220-230 yards and he plays to scratch quite often he is about 75 years old.

YOU DO NOT NEED DISTANCE TO PLAY TO SCRATCH! Anyone who has arms and legs and has a decent level of talent and skill can drive it 240 yards with todays technoligy, its just they cant be arsed to practice there short game! The amount of times people say practice there short game is unbelievable but STILL people say I CANT PLAY TO SCRATCH COS I ONLY DRIVE IT 250!

Luke Donald hits his driver 275 and 5 iron about 195 and he doesent just play to scratch he probbaly plays to a +6 handicap!!! A scratch golfer at my club hits his driver around 260 average and hits his 5 iron around 180 and he holds the course record -4!

Again, you cannot separate driving distance and score from slope and length. It is unlikely somebody who hits the ball 220-230 can consistently score in the low 70's on a 7000 yd course with a high slope, no matter how good their short game.

Yeah but how often is a local club scratch golfer going to play a 7000 yard golf course?? How often is Lgskywalker going to play a 7000 yard golf course?

I was exaggerating, but you get my point. Even 6600 yds would be difficult, not impossible, but difficult to shoot scratch on with a driving distance of 230. Adding to that, if the greens are slopped, they are hard to hold with clubs longer than a 7 iron.

Yeah ok I gte your point but I still think its possible if the only thing you practiced was 150 yards and in!

hi rharris
i use to play a lot when a tour pro from dunbar and he was not a long hitter but his shot game was just so good, i only played with him once when he shot over par at dunbar east and in the wind it a hard course as it right next to the north sea. he was deadly from 120 yards in and most of time he never even thought about it, just knew he would put it close every time. par or 1 or 2 under was the norm.
bill

I think that the other thing that most of the short hiting scratch golfers and pro's are better at that a lot of ametuers can not fathom is course management. I have read some articles by Fred Funk, about on every hole making sure he is in the proper spot in the fairway to attack the pin and if it is a pin he can not realistically fire at or even hold to know where to leave the ball to have a easy up and down.

He has realized his game is what it is that he is not going to be driving it with the Gore's and Daly's that to beat them he needs not only to find the fairway more often but the proper part of the fairway. How many of us on this site in the above hypothetical would still fire at the pin with a 5 iron or even consider where you wanted to miss the green ?

So I think that not only do they have a great short game they also realize that certain areas are easier to get the ball up and down then others. But ones total score is still combination of how well a golfer does certain things and by playing to your strengths and away from your strengths. Take Donald he is not one of the longer hitters on tour but I think that he also conpensates for that by being one of the best long iron hitters on tour. It is definately easier to make par by playing driver wedge, then driver 4 iron.

hi ogallalabob
dave the pro i played with did the same he had spots on the fairway where he knew the best shot in with the diffrent flag placements, and he thought it a bad shot if he was more the 15 feet away, he also knew the greens like the back of his hand and he was a great help at showing you the lines of your putts to, he had good parts on green where he allway hit if it was real windy as he knew he would two putt and had a chance at a one put.
bill

Because lately I havent been hitting my driver well i have been hitting alot of 3 irons and 3 woods off the tee! and with these clubs I can actually look at a spot in the fairway where i want to hit it which will give me the bestest angle into the hole placement! I never really use to do this because once i driver is in my hand im like 90% of youngsters these days, grip it and rip it but it isnt what you really the best way to play!!

Coursemanagement, Short game and mental game are the 3 most important parts of this game for sure!

There's only one thing to know about when trying to shoot under par...MAKE YOUR PUTTS.....if you make your putts then you shoot under par...... MAKE THEM

obsess about it, I would say no, but if you beilieve you should be hitting it farther then you are, check on your mechanics. Most all players have the physical talent to average over 250, but yet the average they had in that article was around 200. WHen you have better mechanics, you have more solid impact, when you have better impact you hit it longer, more accurate, and would more then likely have better impact for short shots as well. You saw on those stats how the 10 and under had better stats across the board and one of those was longer drives. I would guarentee that 5 handicaps hit it longer then 10 hdcps, scratch will average longer then 5, +2 will average longer then scratch, etc... do they swing harder, no they swing more effecient with better allingments and hit the ball farther. I played with a guy who was in his 50's, swung up to 10, swung easy and plays to scratch. In the nine holes I played with him not one drive was shorter then 260, now he will not hit 300 yarders but if you saw his swing you would gain an understanding of how easy you can swing and still hit it pretty far. If I am hitting it short I wonder what is wrong with my mechanics becuase I am leaking power somewhere,

I should be hitting it farther then 230, right ricky

i agree that it is all about mechanics as i have said that i have hit it 280-310 before and that is why i practrice untill i find out what i did then that help me hit so far, i didn't loose any strenght, if anythin gi gainged strenght, i gained a few power leaks. i am 73" and 165 which is light but 250 is still way too short.