nine shots in golf

BrianW · #31 (**permalink**) 02-18-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill reed

hi brian
yes i agree with you the range is best place to play about with this shot to see how much you have to be open to fade the amount you want, once you know then a fade is an easy shot to play. brian do you tend to control how much you fade much better than you do a draw?
bill

Bill,

My standard shot tends to draw a little so deliberately creating a pronounced draw or hook is quite easy for me. I have more of a problem shaping a fade and can do it easier by adopting a lazy forearm rotation, almost a weak slice.

bill reed · #32 (**permalink**) 02-18-2007, 07:48 PM

hi brian
when you started did you tend to hook the ball more, when i started i sliced the ball and find now that i have more control with a fade. i started with a fade as my standered shot till a pro i playerd with a lot got me to change to a draw, i did hit longer but never with the same control as a fade. few years ago i did my back in and did not play golf for over a year, when i started back i found trying to draw the ball tended to tweek my back and was scared it would go again, so i tried to go back to my fade and reading again trevino's book (golf my way). it took a few months to get the swing back but i'm back playing again and my back feels fine fading the ball and playing with a very open stance. i have tried to hit a few draw's lately but it seems like that a draw puts more strain on my lower back so i'll stay with the fade, that way i still play a round of gold every week,
bill

james.welsh · #33 (**permalink**) 02-18-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoNavy

Oh please, the face is still open to path, or closed to the path. Speed that putter upto 100 mph and see what happens. of course the ball in the putter drill follows the face putting angle with a putting stroke, the face angle has more influence then path at that speed, won't hold up when path energy is added in a swing.

In car driving 5 mph turn the wheel to the right all the way as far as it goes, car turns right immediately, now do it going 100 mph, guess what, it's going forward for a ways flipping over until it stops, but it ain't going turn like it did at 5 mph.

note: If your instructor is telling you, face angle has more to do with the initial direction then path, don't walk away from that idiot, RUN.

With the prevailing wisdom agreeing with you GoNavy, I'd have to concede the point.

What I would love though is high speed photography demonstrating how swing path and club face affect ball fight. You'd need an Iron Byron swing machine to demonstrate this.

With all the clever folks that hang out on this list though you'd think there would be someone with conclusive evidence one way or the other.

In the mean-time, I'm concentrating on hitting the ball straight!

bill reed · #34 (**permalink**) 02-18-2007, 11:23 PM

hi james
if i stand open and swing down the line my feet and hips are aiming and with the club face open, the ball starts more in line with my feet then fades and does not start out in line with the face of the club. i agree with gonavy that the setup is what controls where the ball starts out but the face of the club is what makes the ball spin and the amout the face is open will make the ball spin more to the right after the ball has reached the full hight of the flight and the backspin fades and side spin takes over.
bill

BrianW · #35 (**permalink**) 02-19-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowPost42

I cannot argue - this method works. I've seen it work.

But don't be fooled into thinking that the ball is starting down your toe line. The ball is still starting on the draw side of your toe/heel line, the face is still closed relative to the path (draw spin) and square to target. So, since path has a small influence, we only get slight movement to the right of the target line at the start if you've closed the face relative to the target line at impact, otherwise it's still kind of open to target (but closed to path), and we get a ball that starts right, but ends up moving left.

But face angle will always dominate which part of the path the ball starts on.

Someone said a putter shows you well. Someone argued that you only swing the putter 3 mph.

So buy a cheap putter from the throwaway bin, put an iron grip on it, and swing. Or hammer putts as hard as you care. You'll see that face angle wins, every time. (I've got the dented garage door to prove it.)

Or if you don't like that idea, use your 7 iron. Choke the face wide open. Hood it closed. Swing as deliberately as you like down your chosen path. Face angle wins.

I'll try and get some video when the snow melts (I don't think my garage door can take much more).

When setting up with the aim line right or left and the club face to target the ball will take off between these two angles but closer to the direction of the clubface.

The following factors can be summed up as making a ball bend off the intended line:

Using a perfect level stance and swinging from a sideways sloping lie.

Hitting the ball off centre on the clubface (gearing - Toe and Heal shots)

Swinging the clubface right or left of the true line towards the target at impact. (pushes and pulls)

Having the clubface pointing at impact to the left or the right of the direction along which the clubhead is being swung through the ball. (Slices, fades, draws and hooks)

dant · #36 (**permalink**) 02-22-2007, 01:40 PM

I really don't post that often but I like hitting a good power fade. I am a land surveyor by profession and a 19 Handicap. I see a lot of guys posting about how far they open and close there body to hit a draw or fade. Any where from 10 to 35 degrees. I don't think (myself included) anyone understands how far open these different degrees are. I took a protractor an put it on the floor. I lined where I wanted the ball to land and pointed my shoulders, hips and feet where on wanted the ball to start. You would be suprised on how far 35 degrees puts left or right of the target. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you do this you might see that you don't have to line up as far left or right as you think and might get better results.

BrianW · #37 (**permalink**) 02-23-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dant

I really don't post that often but I like hitting a good power fade. I am a land surveyor by profession and a 19 Handicap. I see a lot of guys posting about how far they open and close there body to hit a draw or fade. Any where from 10 to 35 degrees. I don't think (myself included) anyone understands how far open these different degrees are. I took a protractor an put it on the floor. I lined where I wanted the ball to land and pointed my shoulders, hips and feet where on wanted the ball to start. You would be suprised on how far 35 degrees puts left or right of the target. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you do this you might see that you don't have to line up as far left or right as you think and might get better results.

It is not quite like that. If you were to aim your direction of swing off right by 30 degrees for example and align the clubface straight ahead, the direction the ball would take off would be biased towards the club face direction. The ball would take off on something like a 10 degree angle.

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