Joe Dante 4 magic moves.

Originally Posted by Rackster

I have read Dante's thoughts in particular the early cocking of the wrists on the takeaway on the free website. I have to say I do not agree with how Dante has the club head postioned using this early wrist cock on the takeway as it looks to me that the club face does not rotate squarely to the arc of the swing, but I do not want to go into that here.

I have Nick Faldo's book "Golf- The Winning Formula", which he wrote after his first Open triumph in 1987 following his swing surgery.

In the swing building section, Faldo also advocates the early wrist set like Dante. He even has a picture in his book just like Dante showing the 90 degree wrist set exactly like Dante's picture (obviously Nick's had though) Nick here was showing the backward hingeing motion of the wrists he advocated, rather than just an up and down cocking movement.

But in Nick's swing sequences there is no way the club is club or set as quickly as Dante, or the club face as closed. With Nick the toe of the clubface is pointing to the sky, but he has used a backward wrist hinge, as opposed to an up and down cocking action.

Originally Posted by Rackster

I have read Dante's thoughts in particular the early cocking of the wrists on the takeaway on the free website. I have to say I do not agree with how Dante has the club head postioned using this early wrist cock on the takeway as it looks to me that the club face does not rotate squarely to the arc of the swing, but I do not want to go into that here.
I have Nick Faldo's book "Golf- The Winning Formula", which he wrote after his first Open triumph in 1987 following his swing surgery.
In the swing building section, Faldo also advocates the early wrist set like Dante. He even has a picture in his book just like Dante showing the 90 degree wrist set exactly like Dante's picture (obviously Nick's had though) Nick here was showing the backward hingeing motion of the wrists he advocated, rather than just an up and down cocking movement.
But in Nick's swing sequences there is no way the club is club or set as quickly as Dante, or the club face as closed. With Nick the toe of the clubface is pointing to the sky, but he has used a backward wrist hinge, as opposed to an up and down cocking action.

Originally Posted by kbp

A lot of people will see the same thing you do with Dante’s wrist break. With a full two or three knuckle grip, the club face will be closed to some degree at the top if you hold Dante’s wrist break to the top of the swing. I think you can see why this happens if you look at the back of your left hand at address. If you can see two or more knuckles then the back of the left wrist is not facing directly at the target at address. It’s facing somewhat toward the target, but also somewhat up and somewhat out to right field. The clubface, the leading edge, is pointing directly at the target. Put on your golf glove and take a two or three knuckle grip on PW in your left hand. Go over to a wall and press the back of your left hand, the label on the back of your glove, flat against the wall. I think you’ll see that the leading edge of the club won’t align straight with the wall. It will be closed. Unless you regrip the club at some point, the relationship of the back of the left wrist and the clubface can’t change.

If the left wrist is perfectly flat at the top, aligned with the left forearm, the clubface will be closed at the top unless you have a weaker grip. Go back to the wall with the full two or three knuckle grip on your PW and put the glove label and the forearm flat against the wall. Again, the clubface will be closed. With a two or three knuckle grip, you have to have a some degree of cupping in the left wrist if you want the clubface to align with the forearm, square at the top. How much cup....go back to the wall and find out. The weaker the grip, the closer to flat you’ll be when square. I’m not necessarily advocating square or closed, weak or strong.......just making an observation.

Originally Posted by kbp

Please, a little more. You describe someone at address looking at two or three knuckles, some cup in the left wrist (with a square clubface and a bit of shaft lean, assumed). Then at impact they’’re seeing less knuckles and a flatter left wrist. This move would appear to return the clubface too closed or too delofted, depending on where their hands return at impact relative to address. How do they deal with this?

Originally Posted by cmays

Kbp: Thanks.

Let me work on your question.

If we took a 2 knuckle grip and swung it up to the top of the backswing, toe up position w/o any rotation of the arms and hands in the backswing we would see 2 knuckles at the top of the backswing with the bottom of the left hand facing a little out.

As the left hand is pulled down into the downswing just before waist high for most the bottom of the left hand starts to return to facing the ground, palm is now facing you and with that little turn you went from showing 2 hand knuckles to one or what we know as a flat wrist.

That was all natural just from the club being pulled down into the slot.

Now you read the book and the instructor teels you to put the fat pad of the left thumb (area around the base of the thumb to the wrist) over to the right side of the grip for the right hander which locks the hands and wrist into a position and we can swing up and down just as above. Works for the 1 and 2 Plane Swing.
What happens if you do not want the fat pad to the right of the grip?

You could curl the last 2 fingers of the left hand under just enough to allow the forearm, wrist and the back of the left hand to be in alignment.

Curling of the last 2 fingers works great if we want to swing upright or swing upright and lay the hands off into a 1 Plane Position, but it will not work if we use the 1 Plane Hogan Type of swing to where we swing directly around the axis. You would find some backswing restrictions and pulling too much down in the downswing in the 1 Plane Hogan Swing.

Hogan's 1 Plane Swing:

We can go ahead and allow the hands and forearms to rotate back and once you get to shoulder high or higher you can curl the last 2 fingers of the left hand and in the downswing this will force the hands to be thrown out on the 30 degree angle right of the target. You can not use this method with the upright swing, 2 Planer. We pull down in the 2 Plane Swing.

Curling Too Much:

We could address the ball and curl the fingers too much which would hood and close the face and swing back have a Dante's Swing from working of the left side versus working from the right hand.

Having The Clubface Closed At The Top Of The Backswing:

Will always return to square and depending on ball position the face of the club willbe lofted or delofted.

To understand the sentence above I need for you to think of a child's swing.

The front of the swing is the leading edge.

We pull back on the swing and the leading edge is now facing the ground and is delofted and as the swing swings down the leading edge becomes less delofted.

Our Golf Club has a leading edge that works just like the child's swing, same laws.

We are safe delofting the club behind the ball in the backswing as long as we obey the pulling down action or the throwing out action for the swing we want to play.

In a child's swing we do not want to pull it back, twist it to the right, push the child down and have the child flying out to the right pole and smack the pole. In golf and the 1 Plane Hogan type of swing we want to hit the right pole.

The Hitting Area:

The Waist Down to the Ground.

Is not the time to curl the fingers and clubface unless you want to pull the ball, draw it or duck hook it depending on how much you hood the clubface.

No longer are we pulling down like the child's swing, right upper arm back to chest, but we have a throwing down action that will further increase the hooding action. It will also further deloft the club. All of this is how the left hand or hands are being rotated in the different parts of the swing.

As long as we play by the Laws we are safe and one of the laws if you ever allow the back of the left hand to face the sky with more knuckles showing, you are swinging a bat and not a golf club.

If you got more questions or I did not answer something, please feel free to ask and please feel free to put it to the test to see what happens.


Three more days of rain and counting until they say more after that. I live on a hill. If you ever purchase land or a lot, wait until it rains hard to see what you are in for.

The lady down the street pulled her truck into the yard to unload some items and when she woke up the next morning, you could not see any of the tires, they sunk deep into the ground.

Originally Posted by cmays

Dawg:

W/o seeing your hands or elbows and your swing, I can only give you some general information.

3 knuckles at address, 3 knuckles up to waist high and 3 knuckles up in the backswing and back down to waist high in the downswing.

With the four knuckle grip you can see some high shots. The leading edge of the club can point down to the ground on the way back and just like the child's swing starts to lift up when swinging forward, before impact the clubface will do the same. Rotate to much in the backswing and you will not be able to get the clubface back to square and hit a high shot.

I can take a 4 knuckle grip, place the ball back in the stance with the hands forward, keep the leading edge down and I will hit a high shot. The weight of the clubhead is taking over.

I hate to do this, I fit swings to a person's body, here is something you can try:

Right Hander/Left Reverse. It must be done in this order.

Little John Daly Action:

1. Grip the club in the left hand with the 3 knuckles showing with the club off the ground.

2. Turn the hand knuckles to the ground which places the left thumb back on top of the grip. The wrist,forearm and hand are almost flat but will not be totaly flat because of the strong grip. This is the last time and only time will they be semi-flat until impact or hands about over to the left leg.

3. Lower the right shoulder and grip the club from underneath with the right hand.

4. Place the clubhead behind the ball.

5. Swing back with 3 hand knuckles showing at waist high, then up to the top of the backswing maintain the 3 hand knuckles, they will be facing the sky.

6. On the way down the 3 hand knuckles are maintained to waist high.

7. Now right after impact the left wrist is going to cup, bend and the club is going to fly over your left shoulder. Forget everything you been told about the left wrist.

You should find that you stay in balance and the swing is easy to do.

Just a little up and down swing that can pack some speed behind it.

The 2 Fatboys are Lazy, so we have simple swing concepts and we learn quick to stay in balance.

Not Lazy, we just keep it simple from our 2 brain cells. Right Big One?

A little Grip It and Rip It Concept, if that does not work, many more in The Old Bag of Tricks/Swings.