Stack & Tilt Help

Can anyone give me some suggestions as to why I am pulling some of my full iron shots using the stack and tilt swing that I have been using for the last three weeks? The ball is starting left of my intended target, then staying straight on that line. It is not hooking or fading. I have had great results so far using this new swing and feel as if I have taken my hands and arms completely out of the swing equation which is great for me as I grew up playing tennis not golf and have always been "Handsy" with my irons. I am a six and have been stuck there for the last two years. My problem is that I only hit about seven or eight greens in regulation.

Thanks for any suggestions

Could it be that you stack but forget to tilt, followed by kind of 'chopping' at the ball?

I'm more than a little dubious of this latest new swing. Golf digest introduce a new swing pretty much every year, just keep it simple, swing club, hit ball.

Golf digest merely published something that has been around for generations. Staying centered is the way most of us who took lessons as young lads were taught. Its nothing new and certainly nothing most folks should not be doing.
You can't move away from the ball and expect to get back in position at impact, not even Tiger has that kind of coordination.

You seem to be very knowledgeable and I appreciate your help. My grip is neutral (2 knuckles showing on the left hand) and ball position is fine. My divot starts after the ball and I am making great contact. I will try taking it even further inside than I have been and see if that corrects it.

Thanks again for your help cmays. My scores have dropped quickly and I have not scored higher than 75 in my last three outings! I am however very interested in finally getting to zero. Right now, I am a sponge for any information with this swing that is new to me, but apparently has been around for a while, but not taught openly due to the "reverse pivot" no no that most pros talk about. I take bits and pieces from what I hear and see and try to incoporate what works for me. I'm blessed to be in good enough shape at 41 to be able to use this swing as you have to be in fairly good shape to get the big coil that I never had before. I am going to work on getting the club further inside and see if it helps. Have you noticed that when you watch Badd's swing at normal speed, it is virtually impossible to see that there is no weight shift to the right? It seems that most pros these days are working hard to keep their spine angle centered as much as possible and not letting the center of gravity slide to the right on the backswing.
Thanks again,
DJBZ

Ahhhhh!

I wrote all this at the bottom and then went out and swung the weighted driver and the one thing you can try before the inside moves or some of the other things I spoke about below and something that has been skipped.

Feel the left side of the face leaning to the left in the backswing. This will force the arms to be thrown straight out. Left cheek inside left leg.

The more we move the head to the center and back to the right the more the shoulders will rotate. Right cheek inside right leg.

If you have the old video of John Daly, Grip It & Rip It, you will see that his head remains to the left, he makes the inside backswing and everything comes straight out and shoulders go into full rotation versus full rotation at the start of the downswing. We are dealing with Weight and Balance.

In Stack & Tilt the left shoulder remains more out in front of the body thus wanting to pull to the left on the downswing.

Remember one of the keys on the downswing for this swing is to pull up and you can go back and read that section.

Grip any club and stand straight up with the club off the ground and you will see the clubface is slightly open.

Bend down from the waist with elbows flex and the clubface should turn to the left.

Swinging a little more to the inside will force you to swing a little more to the outside thus blocking the left shoulder from turning around so much.

You can also see a greater inside approach from Shawn Clemshaw and the right foot back.

1. YouTube - Golf Pro Lesson Stack & Tilt

Something that Shawn does not understand is setting the head to the left at address and he speaks of the head dropping out of the sky, but drop the right foot back and the head remains to the left. What we now have is one in the same.

Drop the left foot back to open the stance and the head remains to the right. Balance My Friend.

I was speaking to someone Friday and he likes to flex the right elbow at address with the clubface open at address.

Another option is to focus in on the hip slide versus rotation in the downswing. From the knees and Charles Calhoun has us covered on this:

2. http://www.calhoungolf.com/Knee Action.htm

The knee action also forces the left shoulder up.

You have several options and since I can not see the swing I can throw some darts out.

If a person can take some of the things out of the Stack & Tilt Method they are going to have a much easier swing and they should see their scores dropping in a short peroid of time.

When you get a lesson from one of us, several across the country that works with the same concepts it is soooo-easy compared to reading something that you need to be long winded about to cover all the bases. These concepts are on tour and all this is old cake with new icing on top.

I am now finished with this post.[/quote]

Stack and Tilt have given me new life. I have Rheumatoid Artiritis and have not cartlidge in my right knww joint making a traditional pivot somewhat painful and also tiring over a round of golf. My PGA professional suggested we give this swing a try as a way to reduce the torque and tension on my right knee. I was rather dubious about making such a drastic change but the initial results have been nothing short of amazing.
Instead of being exhausted after a round of golf I actually feel very rested. I even played six straight days rececently.
I am still working out the bugs and must admit tht the new swing hasn't become fully ingrained in my muscle memory. I am hoping that over the winter I can find an indoor range to continue to practice this new swing.
If anyone knows of a book or video on stack and tilt I would appreciate a shout out.
Until I have more exciting news to report the other big benefit is an increase of 15-30 yards on my driving distance is good enough! I am optomistic that come spring I will begin to see a decrease in handicap as the new swing becomes more of a habit!

Ahhhhh!

Another bit of loot!

I read your posts and every so often something jumps out. Sometimes it's in one of the links you post, such as DISTANCE THROUGH RESISTANCE, which got me paying attention to that right knee going back. And your comment about 60-40 weight distribution with the irons. That was helping a lot, and I think I need to get back to it. But this short Calhoun article on the right knee just turned on another light.

I've sometimes had the fleeting sense that when I hit a nice clean shot, my right knee sorta cozies up to my left leg as I swing through; it feels almost like a dance move. So I just went outside and swung a club a few times. Spontaneously, that knee pops straight out, going outside the left one. I never noticed it before tonight, but there it is. If, however, I just make the effort to keep it inside and going forward, I get that "dance move" feeling.

Obviously, the next step will be to see how this works with a ball.

This is a good illustration of "body part" thinking. Obviously it can be overdone. But sometimes, it seems to me, becoming aware of what a body part is doing can make a big difference. We'll see if this is one of those times.

[Note: connection between this and the "swing governor" gadget is apparent]

__________________
Todd
Philadelphia, PA
USA

The reason the pro tells you to keep your head down is so you can't see him laughing. ~Phyllis Diller

Stack & Tilt has helped me tremendously with my iron play that has always been my nemesis. I have worked on this for months and tinkered here and there, trying different things until something clicked. I think the most important part is having a neutral grip. I had to weaken mine slightly because the swing keeps you on a great plane if the head does not move laterally. I had my swing video taped and never realized how much lateral movement I had with my head, the body follows the head!

The only thing I have struggled with was my driver. I ended up going to to two different setups! One for the irons and one for the driver and fairway woods! I know you PGA guys are shaking your heads!!! Anyway, I setup with the driver with a slight chin turn to the right facing my right toe and the ball well forward in my stance. I attack the ball from the inside bottom and feel like I'm trying to hit it as high as I can. This is the opposite of the irons where I feel like I'm trying to pound the golf ball into the turf and actually hit the ball first then the ground. This has helped me lower my handicap significantly and I'm now accustomed to my "Two" new swings.

I hope this helps more than it does confuse or complicate things for anyone.

Regards,
D J B Z

Hi DJBZ

have been playing around with SaT for just over two weeks now and have never hit better irons... never... I have been playing hurt (separated rib 4Yrs and sciatica 1 yr) for the last 4 years and have not played a round of golf that was not either under the influence of drugs and alcool (the latter for the pain of course) or played with sharp pains in my back...

not until Stack and Tilt... I can now make a full shoulder turn whereas with the more traditional swing I could only turn about 1/3 before the ribs problem cried out for me to stop!...

my biggest problem too was with the driver, and with the same sensation that I was going to pound the driver head into the ground... instead I have gripped down anywhere from 2 - 3" on the driver and am now hitting it more solid, more consistently... longer, straighter... with the same swing as my irons... I'm only 5.8" with a paltry SS of around 90ish, so long shafts were of no great benefit to me... I've been as low as a 5.9HC but earlier this summer I had ballooned to close to 10... since SaT a few weeks ago I have hit more par threes, hit longer drives, hit more pure FW's and gained about a full club to club and a half overall

but most importantly I have hit more range balls, and played more holes pain free than all summer... and lovin every minute of it... can't wait til next year now!

Cmays
Does it make a difference in your long irons and three wood as far a stack & tilt whereas like your driver it is more stack than tilt
Dant

huh? quite sure I don't understand that reference!

I thought the intent of S&T was to keep the weight from shifting away from the left side... and to get rid of the dreaded swaying that so many golfers are afflicted with... so far its been doing a great job for me... that's also why I was wondering about your earlier comment about not doing the tilt for the Driver... when I try this, in my case with my rib problem there is still a rib problem... it is only by including the tilt that I can still make a full turn back and thru... my compensation has been to grip down 2 - 3" on the driver and about 1.5" on the 4 wood... even at that I'm still hitting it longer and straighter than with my old traditional swing
in the photos of Aaron though it looks like his left arm is pretty much straight in every case... there doesn't look to be anything relaxed about his left arm at in in fact... I understand that the first move looks to be the tilt of the left side, especially the left shoulder, but it looks like everything with this swing is still moving in unison... to what degree would you suggest we would take the relaxation of the left arm without losing contact with the shoulder turn?
good tip... this seems to work as well, making the downward swing with the longer shafted clubs less steep

__________________
my putters suffer from ADHD!

hi cmays
i met the little merry Mexican in 1972 before he started the open at muirfield
(muirfield is about 15 minuets away from me) he was on the practice range on the wed/morning at 8.15 and telling every body that was around him how to hit a low fade to get under the muirfield winds, he was relaxed and and came out with so many tips you could not take them all in, will never forget that 80 minuets about 15 off us watched him and he shook every one's hand that was there too.
been a hero of mine ever since.
bill

__________________
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ping eye2 1 iron
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ping ist 47% wedge
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ping mb 56% wedge
ping c10 G2I broom handled putter
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hi cmays
thanks for the links i found both interesting and the first bought back memory's of seeing Lee on day two and three at the open in 1972 and i watched him win on TV on day four. when i started out golfing it was his book (Swing my way) that i tried to copy and used it for some 12 years before a golf pro got me to change to a draw swing, i did hit longer but never as consistent. i damaged my spine and had to give up golf for years then went back a few years ago but using a draw gave me back pain so i change to my old open swing and dug out his book again and it worked, no back pain.
i do get a full turn and am fairly long off the tee (260yds) long for me.
but the best thing about swinging Trevino's way it the consistency of club onto ball and how easy it to adjust how much fade you get on the ball. with me i think the hips drive my swing and everything else follows, i don't try and do anything with my hips its more a mind thing where i think of my hips controlling the swing and let the mind take over what happens.
i find it a easy way to play but i do play for enjoyment and don't really bother about if i don't win my foursome every week, i find i always have a few really good hole in a round and thats whats more important to me and there is only two holes at my course i have not par'd yet but i'm working on that.
thanks for you help as i know you understand my swing by your comments to me in past posts, have you ever tried playing using Lee's system???
thank
bill

__________________
ping zing2 metal driver
ping zing2 metal 3 wood
ping eye2 1 iron
ping zing2 3/9 irons
ping ist 47% wedge
ping zing2 52% s/wedge
ping mb 56% wedge
ping c10 G2I broom handled putter
top flight "T" golf balls
white ping bag