Blades vs Cavity Backs

My apologies, GoNavy.

I wasn't meaning to attack. You're very good at explaining things, and your wordsmithing is usually top notch. I was hoping that you might be able to quantify how much more difficult you perceive it to be to work the ball with cavs. My reaction may have been a little, shall we say, aggressive, but I often see this knock against cavity back irons, and wonder why it's so?

I will reverse the question here - if it is no more difficult to draw of fade the ball, the why do cavity backs hit the ball straighter?


If you have to make more explicit set up changes, isn't that making it more difficult to work the ball? If you are making more changes in your swing to hit specific chots, the farther you get from your natural swing, the more problems you will run into.

Glad to hear is wasn't personal, since you didn't mention Gord, thought you were signaling me out, which was also strange, because that was just one thing I mentioned and I really didn't hit it very hard. Now back to the question, I don't know if it's true or not, Gord makes some very good points, I can only make statements to what I have personally experienced, and I know for me, Cavs are harder to work. It may be nothing more then the fact that I am old and set in my ways, and I just don't like the way they look at address, which affects my swing. I don't like the offset, looks strange to me, most blades don't have this offset. Comparing to pros as I said is a useless venture, because thier clubs may have the same name on them that you or I buy, but I can assure you, they don't play the same. The only thing I look to the pros for, is basic club design. I played perssimon heads for the longest time, until virtually all the pros switched to metal, then I said, must be something to this..lol...when all the pros switch to cavity, then I will probably have the same reaction. Same reason I don't use face forward wedges..lol...if there was anything to it, all the pros would use it. More and more are using Hybrids and subsequently I am now thinking of getting one, I will hit both long irons and hybrids for awhile and decide which is better for ME, and that is the key, which is better for YOU. For cavity backs I am more concerned with the huge offset, and bigger heads then I am workability, so to be perfectly honest, I just like the way they look.

Had to add this: One other thing I don't like, cavs have bigger sweet spots, which in my case made me lazy and allowed me to get away offcenter hits. Nothing in golf is free, may get away with it, but allowing offcenter is paid for with less then a true center hit you get with blades, and I don't know when my swing is off slightly. Me personally, I would rather take the lost in distance of a bad hit, and know I hit it badly.

Well spoken, GoNavy. Sorry - I missed Gord's post near the top where he mentioned harder to work.

For both you fellas, you both make great points.

To re-word my position:

For cavs you have to make more noticable changes to your setup to work the ball, as opposed to blades or MB's, where the change isn't quite as extreme.

So I'll concede that from a 'change your setup' point of view, blades are easier to work.

However, it seems to me that if your method is to line up your feet away from target and your clubface towards it, then swing down your body line (a popular method); then the only thing that would change from blades to cavs is just how far you aimed yourself away from the target. What I fail to understand is how that's harder in all but the most extreme cases. In other words, where are you going to have to draw or fade the ball so hard that your ability to execute the shot is diminished by the equipment?

Now, as for offset and thick top lines: I have no arguement. Some of the prettiest clubs I've ever laid eyes on were some old-school Spalding Lynx. These tiny little heads with little pointy toes and a super thin top line.

Real GI clubs are tough to look at, for me. The Innovex clubs in my backup bag are great sticks, just tough to fall in love with, visually.

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A new highlight: Golfing the home course on Christmas Day.

I say it too often: If it's golf club shaped, you can play with it.

For the record, I'm a club doctor, not a swing doctor.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Just a quick comment though, as I stated before, the more you have to change your swing, the more likely to create disaster. Opening or closing your clubface will also fit into this catagory.

If you are opening your clubface and stance to create a fade, then you are adding more loft, which will also affect your distance. Now, to get the same movement from a blade to a Cav back you will have to open the face even more, creating even more loft and less distance, therefor more difficult a shot. Also, the more open the face, the more likely to create a miss hit.

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Gord

Quote of the month:
"It's easy to see golf not as a game at all but as some whey-faced, nineteenth-century Presbyterian minister's fever dream of exorcism achieved through ritual and self-mortification." ~Bruce McCall

I agree with Gord...LOL...and the debate goes on....If nothing else can we agree, that a beginner, should NOT use a blade iron, any off center hit or closed/open face is going to be met with some serious consequencies. So until a person is at the level of understanding of his/her swing to know what causes a certain shot, they really need all the help they can get, and a cavity back gives them that help. Hope this answers the OP original question. Fair analogy would be a regular car vs a nascar, they both do the same thing, and look similar, but your going to hurt yourself in the nascar if you don't know what you doing. Blade irons are just a more precise instrument in my opinion, for some one who know how to use them.

I think its the funny the way everyone turns into a kiss ass over a difference of opinion.

I totally disagree with GoNavy about Cavs being harder to shape shots. If you are used to your clubs then you learn how to work the ball. you may have to do things slightly differenet but different is not necessarily harder.

....And that is why you have a 28 handycap...lol

I'm not sure what you're referring to. My apologising and keeping a thread civil? Getting a little more in-depth in my questioning, or was it when I was conceding a point which I could no longer argue - is that when I became a kiss ass?

Please clarify who became a kiss ass and when?

lol..hell I thought Phil he was talking about me..I must have a guilty concise today. I am still trying to figure out why everyone is acting like I am bad mouthing Cavitybacks, I think they are great clubs, I just perfer blades. Guess that makes me a kiss Ass too. The only reason I made that snipe to him, was because he perfered personal attacks to a valid position. Looking at Phils profile he had snake eyes 600c at the top which are blades, then McGregory DX3 listed now, which are cavity backs, so I must assume even he doesn't buy his argument, could it be he wanted a more forgiving club.

Just to add to the mix:

Enter the combo set.

Cavity backs in the long irons.
Muscle-cavs in the mid irons.
Blades in the short irons.

Who are these good for??

The 600Cs are cavity backs, the 600Bs are the blades.

As for the combo sets, this is what I prefer.

I think the idea here is that with the longer irons you want them straighter since a small swing error will cause more of a draw/fade/slice/hook compared to, say, your 8 irons because the shaft length. A more forgiving face will help straighten out these shots. The midirons you have a bit more control since the shafts aren't as long, therefore it takes a bit more to get the ball to move. Assuming what I have been saying about blades vs cavities is actually true then muscle cavities would fall in between the two. If that's the case, there is less adjustment to the club than compared to a cavity back to work the ball. It still helps out small swing flaws to keep them a bit straighter. Short irons I feel a blade is vital. First off is for feel and again, the shorter the club, the harder to manipulate the ball L to R or R to L, so a blade is almost required to work the ball with a short iron.

Just my two cents

__________________
Gord

Quote of the month:
"It's easy to see golf not as a game at all but as some whey-faced, nineteenth-century Presbyterian minister's fever dream of exorcism achieved through ritual and self-mortification." ~Bruce McCall

One other thing, let's say you have a 10% fade/slice. That is, for every 10 yards you hit the ball straight, you also move 1 yards to the right (for righties) On a 100 yard shot that is 10 yards (your still in the fairway) and on a 200 yard shot, your now 20 yards off center. It's nice to have abit more forgiveness on the longer shots to keep them closer to the center of the fairway, one of the main reasons for the combo sets.

Good point that mate

I play between an 18 and 16 HC. That said, I can use all of the help I can get. I recently picked up Callaway's '06 Big Bertha irons (the ultimate game-improvement/forgiving CB). Hey, I love the game but I also understand my limitations (i.e. repeatable and consistant swing). If equipment is going to help me enjoy the game more and keep it in the short grass, why not! Like these gentlemen suggested - for the beginner and/or high-HCer, CBs all the way. Interesting topic nonetheless.

My 2 cents....