rules question

I am a junior in high school and during a match against another school I encountered an interesting rules question which i would like to clarify!

After completing a hole, we walked to the next tee, a par 3, and there group in frount of us was still putting on the green, so we had some time to wait. Directly behind the tee box was the end of the driving range. The boundary of the driving range was a tall but loose net with some holes, so many range balls were scattered around the tee. While we waited, since I had been slicing the ball a bit, I decided to practice by hitting the balls against this net, before I stepped up to the tee. My opponents claimed that this was an infraction. Upon consulting the rulebook, we discovered that it was legal to "putt or chip" around a green after a hole is completed, or to put or chip on or around a teabox beofre actually hitting the ball. The coach on the other team stated that a "full swing" however would be an infraction of this rule. Thus we then got into a debate on whether my practice shots were "chips" or "full swings"! To the best of my ability, I approximated that they were half/three quarters swings!

Our team won by a sizeable margin, so we agreed to wave the penalty. However, I am curious if anyone knows if i was at fault? Is there actually a difference between chipping and hitting full swings? If so, how do you draw the line between chipping and swinging? I do realize now that it was a bit foolish to even hit balls against the fence in the first place! Thanks.

-Michael

How far would the ball have gone if the net/fence was not there? If it was over 40 yards, I would say you were not chipping, but hitting a full shot, no matter the length you took it back.

I would say that it would have gone over 40 yards. If it was a "full shot", is it a penalty?

7-2. During Round
A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole.
Between the play of two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:
(a) the putting green of the hole last played,
(b) any practice putting green, or
(c) the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round

A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball...

Unfortunatly "Chipping" is not defined. Which is why I make the assumtion of a ball trying to go over 40 yards as a "Stroke".

Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.

And to further complicate things:
7-2/5 Hitting Practice Range Ball Back to Range
Q. During play of a hole, a player saw some balls from the adjoining practice range lying on the course and flicked one back to the range with his club. Is there a penalty under Rule 7-2?
A. In some circumstances the hitting of a practice range ball back towards the range during the play of a hole would be a breach of Rule 7-2, but the casual flicking of a range ball, apparently only for the purpose of tidying up the course, is not a breach.

Interesting how a chip is okay but if you hit a practice shot too hard, you can get a penalty because that would be a "stroke".

So even if i am hitting into a net, and i am faced in the opposite direction of the green, and i do this while i am waiting for the green to be cleared, if I hit a stray range ball with enough force into a net so that the ball WOULD have gone "40" yards I would no longer be "chipping" and that would be a stroke?

Does 7-2/5 apply between holes?


Also

"A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball..."
what if i am intending to hit a RANGE ball
is that still a stroke?
since i didn't announce a change in balls....hmmm


i thank you for your input!

A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball..."

The ball, in this instance, is the ball at which you're taking your cut. So in your case, the range ball was your target, and you made a stroke.

What we need to clarify, IMO, is this:
During play of a hole, a player saw some balls from the adjoining practice range lying on the course and flicked one back to the range with his club. Is there a penalty under Rule 7-2?

What is the definition of a hole in play? In theory until you hit your tee shot with the intent to play a second shot on the same ball you haven't started play on that hole.

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It is not about if a hole is in play, or where your target is. It seems that it is all about "intent". You are able to putt and chip after a hole (for some reason), and flick balls back into the range, even knock a ball to your opponent with your club if he asks you to retrieve his provisional ball for him, as long as you are not attempting to play a stroke...like lining up, thinking about the swing, taking it back as you would a real full stroke. The flicking of the balls back into the range needs to be the intent of simply cleaning house (so to speek) and using a non-golf-like-stroke to do it. Like say, one handed, still walking like a polo player. Even if you have both hands on the club, your intent has to be inside you head that you are not doing this action to benifit from extra practice. Otherwise, without this rule, what is stopping anyone from taking a bag of rangeballs with them on the course, playing a few before each shot (in any direction). Then hit their real ball. It always bothered my that they let the chipping and putting go on, but I think it was to allow for mindless, time-killing, nerve-soothing, simple play with the club and ball in between hole waiting for the others to clear. And a line had to be drawn somewhere.

Now knowing this, was your intent to "practice" a few shots into that net? If so, then you lost the hole, and move to the next. If not, and you were simply not thinking about the swing in any way, just flicking balls into the net to kill time, never really taking a stance, never thinking about the swing...then you say that honestly and if there is ANY dispute, you take you lumps lose the hole and move on, otherwise if they saw how you addressed the ball in a "don't care" attitude, then you do not need to take the penalty. But always give the benifit of any doubt to your opponents in all rule disputes. State your case once, hear their case, and if they think their case is stronger, then you should conceed it and move on. This way, you are in a better position to do the same to them if they need to be penalized.

I don't want to seem like i am stubbornly adhereing to an obviously wrong ruling decision, but i am just not convinced yet!



yes I definitely was "practicing"


but by 7-2 you are clearly allowed to chip and put


...and chipping and putting would = practicing ... right?


so I don't believe that "intent" is as important as you say it is
I definitely wouldn't get a penalty becuase while i was chipping or putting, i was attempting to practice.


I have been studying the rules over and over, and i think that what it comes down to is whether or not i made a "stroke" by hitting a range ball against the fence.

Plus i can't get over this chipping exception. Your 40 yard rule seems reasonable but there are problems. Does it matter which club i hit? I can make a full swing as hard as i possibly can with a open faced sand wedge and hit a 20 yard flop but make a very short swing with a 2-iron and effortlessly hit it way over 40 yards. Is one a chip, and the other not a chip? Would one be more illegal than the other? Would one be okay? Both?

Chipping and putting are strokes. A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball..."
So is a full swing. If a chipping stroke is an exception, then is a 1/4 swing an exception? 1/2? 142/456? This rule allows chipping and putting between holes. To me, this is the same principle, so it still seems like it would also be an exception.

Golf is a game of yes or no. It went in the hole, or it didn't. It went out of bounds, or it didn't. You made a chip, or you chipped too hard??





but i could be completely wrong

this rule is definitely ambiguous

i can see both sides



Greg i appreciate your input and i hope i am not getting on your nerves by refuting you

In both chipping and putting, the clubhead does not get above knee height, and the ball flight is also low (usually below knee height as well).

How was your clubhead height? Ball flight?

I wonder if the green just played comes into this consideration. The allowed putting is on the green just played and one would think that the chipping is also. I think a chip is not so much defined by its length as it is by the intent to hole it (or get close), similar to a putt. Yeah, I know you chip out from behind trouble but I believe that the rule makers had the chip from the fringe in mind when the drafted this rule. I think that hitting the balls into the net was probably not permitted under the rules. D

The rules clearly state that practice is not permitted during a round of golf, except some chipping and putting as has already been stated by others. I think what is important is that, in your heart of hearts, you know that you were practicing golf shots to try and fix a problem with your swing before playing the next hole. This is against the rules and you should freely admit that and cop the penalty.

What makes golf special is that it relies on the honour of the player to do the right thing. Frequently, professional golfers call penalties on themselves for infringements that nobody had seen, that is what the spirit of the game is all about. If you don't know the rules it may not be obvious what the situation is but, as golfers, I think we all have some obligation to learn at least the basic rules of golf.

I fully understand and appreciate the fact that golf is a game of integrity and honesty. I value this fact and I personally uphold this idea at all times. I am sorry that you may perceive that I am attempting to wiggle my way out of some penalty strokes, but this is not the case. I am merely trying to fully understand and learn from my mistake, so I do not repeat it in the future. During all my years of playing for fun and in tournaments, I had never enountered such a rule, and thus I found it to be quite strange. Some golf pros who I consulted in regards to this rule were unsure, and some even believed that I was not at fault!! I thank you all for your input, and I promise I will never hit balls against the fence again .

Rule 7-2 is what covers it

Have you never read the Rules Book.
Rule 6-1
The player is responsible for knowing the Rules.