How do you stop lifting up in the backswing ?

OK, good point, it's not easy in words. This video shows how consideration of the shoulders will assist in keeping your spine angle.

Go to this link: V1 Golf Video Lessons# Then look at "Maintain Spine Angle Drill"

Wow, sounds like information overload. I feel for you. You won't get it overnight but you have some of the right ideas in mind. You now must convince your body to follow suit.

Get in an address position with a club in hand. Instead of bending over to address the ball stand straight up, arms extended straight out in front of you with club in hand. Keep the arms in front of you and just rotate your torso from the hips up to the back. Keep that lower body quiet. Really easy to maintain that spine angle from that position. You are restricting arm movement and only using your torso to turn the club back. That is the kind of rotation you are looking for in the backswing only you are in a bent over position.

Now get into your address position. Don't turn but instead lift your arms until they are almost perpindicular to your body. Just lift the arms straight up but stay bent over. Resist the urge to also lift your torso. Now hinge your wrist straight up kind of throwing the club over your shoulder but still not rotating. Now from that position just rotate your torso back. That should put you at the top of the back swing. There, you probably got back there without lifting up. I've done this drill and hit balls with it.

I think it is a natural thing for us to lift our bodies as we lift our arms in the backswing and straigtening that right leg is also a hard habit to break.

Brian, I find it impossible to get my left shoulder under my chin when I swing. I think that's my problem. My head is lifting because the left shoulder is forcing it to do so.

I've tried every drill in the book as well to maintain the spine angle. None have worked.

I've just posted my swing in the Gallery. You can clearly see how I lift up during the backswing.

Indeed. And if you continue to study that video clip, you will certainly learn how to lift up during the backswing.

In another thread, I mentioned that people stopped progressing when the only thing they used to learn was video of themselves. Coincidentally, tonight I just watched a documentary on our learning mechanism and I know a bit more about the reasons for what I noticed.


We learn by looking.

When we do something, anything, our brain lights up like a christmas tree. Interestingly, the same thing happens when we look at others do what we are doing. For instance, when we look at a player hit ball after ball on the range, our brain lights up almost exactly like if we were hitting ball after ball on the range. We also learn by visualizing. Athletes do this all the time to prepare or to train. They review or practice the jump, the dive, the descent or the course in their mind's eye. As they do that, their brain lights up just like if they were actually doing whatever it is that they're visualizing. The parts of the brain that control the motions become almost as active as when they do the deed even though they are quite immobile.


Nothing new to learn.

When you look at yourself on video, all you see is what you already know. There's nothing new for you to learn. While it may be useful for your coach to have your swing on video for future analysis or coaching, you don't get the same value for your time. The response you would get by looking at others won't happen when you look at yourself. You will not learn anything new from watching yourself on video. Not only that, you will compound the problem, if there is one, by overlapping what you know with more of the same. If you want to stop progressing, look at yourself on video. If you want to progress, look at others.


I have about 400 clips of golf swings from other players but only two of myself and I rarely watch those. I prefer to watch Ernie or Tiger or even Moe. I continue to search for new clips of old and new players. Both good and bad so I can continue to learn. So I can progress.

__________________
Ultimately, doubt is
what makes us fail.
If we doubt that,
let us take a moment
and consider the irony.

Martin - To be fair I do watch pro swings on V1.

I tried my short swing and I basically hit the same shot. So my push shot isn't caused by my lift up. Reason because in my short swing I'm not lifting up.

So it must be my allignment. People have always told me I use a closed stance from everything from drives to putts.

I realized that I aim my feet at the flag or target. Is this wrong ?
Should you have your feet parellel to the target line ?

Hello ThePuttKing,

For those who like the long version, read on! It is me, after all!

For those who want the short version, skip to the bottom!

I haven't had a chance to get your video on my V1 yet, but I think you're missing something that may change the way you look at it.

Martin has good points re using video to look at your swing. You need to know what you're looking at, what you're looking for, and you also need to see what's there.

Just had a look in the gallery at your updated swing and I am going to say something that may surprise you.

You don't lose your spine angle. Unfortunately the video is done hand-held rather than on a tripod, but if you look at reference points in the distance and your general shape, you don't lose your spine angle. Losing spine angle will mean your head will either go forward, toward the ball, or back away from it. Your head does neither. Your head goes up away from the ground. The only thing that can do this is the straightening of your legs.

Your legs do, indeed straighten, then re-squat in the hitting area so you meet ball with club.

A suggestion on trying to overcome this:

A lot of swinging motion faults (ie stuff that doesn't come from set up and posture) come from your mental picture of the swing. There is a swing image Nick Bradley uses for the backswing in his book that sees an imaginary huge hand (like a Monty Python hand) pressing down on the golfers head as well as turning the legs below the knees into springs during the backswing. Imagine swinging back and squishing those springs a little in order to keep your leg flex. Particularly in your right leg. It almost locks out at the moment.

In fact, just found it here:

BBC Sport Academy | Chat | Your golf questions answered

I agree with your thought that your posture is maybe a little too upright. It won't help with retaining your posture in your backswing. Activate those leg muscles!

You may be along some good lines when you say about shortening your swing. Maybe try to get your arms a little lower too at the top. At the moment, you get into an almost Jim Furyk-like position at the top with the club above your head. Now, of course, Jim is a quality player, but unless you're actually trying to swing like him, don't try it!

Try stopping your arms going back at the same time your torso stops turning. It'll certainly shorten your arm swing and may help to keep your arms lower. If you like, stand fractionally further away to squat you a bit more and get some stronger angles in there to aid what you're doing (if you decide to do it!). Get someone to video it and have a look. Post it in the gallery if you like and lets see.

Short Version:

1) stand a little further away (weight centred on feet)
2) stop your arm swing and torso turn at the same time going back
3) imagine squishing your springy legs a little in the backswing (especially right leg)

PS - feet parallel to target line. If you align your feet to the target you'll hit right of it. Think train tracks.

__________________
Luke: I don't believe it!
Yoda: That is why you fail.

Many thanks for that Neil. I'll keep you posted !

You are lifting your arms and shoulders too much at the top of the backswing and that is bringing everything else with it. If you look at your right elbow it is away from your body and flying out and up, this is bringing your club way above plane at the top, you are then getting into a steep swingpath coming back down.

Practice putting a headcover under your right armpit and keeping it there through the swing. At the top of the backswing feel as if your right arm and hand is like a waiter carrying a tray of drinks held up with his right hand.

__________________
Best Regards
Brian

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Funny o'l game!

Nicklaus used the left shoulder under the chin on the backswing, and the the right shoulder passing under the chin on the forward swing. Exactly as Brian W explained.
Nicklaus also had a problem with head movement during his teenage years. His fix then was to have his swing coach grab the hair on his head, so that if he moved his head, up, or sideways he would feel a pulling sensation on his scalp, which he discribed as some what painful at times.

I might suggest you focus on keeping your adam's apple the same distance from the ball through out your swing. If you keep this part of your throat a consistant distance from the ball, the bottom of your swing arc will also be consistant. GJS

Right instead of using an head cover under my right armpit, I made a fold with my jumper (I've seen this tip somewhere !), and throughout the swing I made sure I could feel the fold under my armpit. It's quiet easy to do. I filmed my swing and it looks better. I don't lift up as much, my arm doesn't come away from my body and I don't look so upright.

I hit some shots with my problem clubs (3 wood and 3 iron !) and they were alot better !

Thats Good.

Putking:

I heard over and over that the first move in the backswing needs to be on plane or the rest of the swing becomes a series of compensations of which lifting of the arms, spine, and, or shoulders are common.

I think you mentioned that you have an outside takeaway. Although the inside drag move is more prevalent, the outside takeaway can preclude the same compensating faults.

You may want to take a look at your takeaway positions to see if your club shaft is getting off plane from the start. You should have the feeling that the butt (grip) end of the club is moving away from the ball at the same rate of speed as the clubhead until your hands are in line your right pocket. If you are used to taking the club back outside this might be a good place to start your troubleshooting. Get the initial move away right and the rest of the swing has a fighting chance.

Since you use a good video software package this should be easy to draw plane lines and check your takeaway. It's not hard to groove the right move when you know what you are looking at and the swing is moving slowly enough at this point where it is easy to monitor.

Best of luck.
Tim S.

Fair bit of reading in here and I haven't really read over it. So sorry if this has been mentioned.

Puttking is your chin too close to your chest at address?

The reason why I ask is, if it is, your head will have to raise to make way for your shoulder turn.

Happy new year.

Good post vp27519.