Have you been taught to swing wrong or RIGHT?

Bill,

I agree that they started with a hip slide but that's not my point. I just don't agree that the coil between the hips and shoulders create substantial clubhead speed. The movement of the hips and legs at the start of the downswing act to setup, support and brace the rotational forces that are about to happen with the shoulders, arms and hands.

hi Brian
if you have a hip slid then it brings the arms down differently to the backswing.
if you swing only turning the hips and no sway forward then you swing more around, the hip slid has the right arm dropping more into the space the hips sway has made and this helps you keep the club at right angle to your left arm as you elbow drops. i think this hip movement does help with the speed of the arms and the dropping of the right elbow.
how much does it add to the arms i don't know.
cheers
bill

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hi Go Low
i find what your were saying about Faldo very interesting but the legs/hips move before the right shoulder starts to drop and the hip/leg action is just as important as the right shoulder tip.
i think it was Brian that said you need all the parts of the body to work together to have a powerful swing.
i think when you see all top pro golfer all have some hip slid and use there legs and knees well, like Faldo in your pictures.
i think you must need the knees and hips to move before the downswing starts to give you the room for the right elbow to drop to the right hip and this also helps in the dripping of your right shoulder tip.
i do take your point that the movement of hips and legs and knees is not a movement you should try to have start the downswing but more a reaction to your backswing.
maybe it just with my strange swing and that i have to have more hip sway to go with my very open stance that i think more about my hips and legs more that most other player.
cheers
bill

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ping zing2 metal driver
ping zing2 metal 3 wood
ping eye2 1 iron
ping zing2 3/9 irons
ping ist 47% wedge
ping zing2 52% s/wedge
ping mb 56% wedge
ping c10 G2I broom handled putter
top flight "T" golf balls

Interesting thread Go Low.
I have read the original thread,but not all the post's on this one.I do notice some tour pro's in their practice swings,leave all of their right foot on the ground on their downswing.Much like a fairway bunker shot advice,to keep the lower half passive.
The modern teaching is away from the reverse 'C' position,a swing thought on the lines of what you are saying,legs support the upper body,rather than leading the down swing.
The hardest thing(or impossible) is to teach feel,and what you are advocating is just that.Golfers first have to experience a movement, before it can be stored in the memory bank.
I am teaching my 10 year old daughter at the moment ,who happens to be left handed,and guess what?I bought her right-handed clubs.
I think you will find a lot of the greats were left-handed.....food for thought.

GoLow

Question, if I went to throw a ball, skip a stone, swing a baseball etc, I would simply 'step' onto my lead foot and 'throw' - arm and body together

Like the step drill in golf, to learn to transfer wright properly

This is a natural movement, shift, turn and throw. I wouldnt do this my moving my right shoulder in a deliberate downwards/rocking motion? At least I dont think I would? The stepping motion/lower body would lead?

Go Low thanks for the reply,I have just come back from the range with my daughter she really enjoys hitting balls,I told her next week she is ready for nine holes.
I have Trevino's book"swing my way",in it writes, he watched Hogan for days at Shady Oaks club,Texas(near you?).Hogan hit every kind of shot to be played.Trevino came away convinced Hogan controlled all his shots with the lower body,instead of the wrist and hands.The more he led with the hips and legs,the more he would fade from left to right.
Trevino went back to Hardy Greenwood's driving range in Texas and worked for months on what he had learned from watching Hogan,well the rest is history.
I play here with a group of expats who unlike me,they have taken the game up late in life,so they are all high handicappers.The main fault they all have is turning the shoulders out of plane to start the down-swing,(especially the tall players).
I am 67 and still scoring in the 77-79 range,and still single figure since 35 years ago.I maintain a conscious turn of the shoulders"away' from the ball back facing the target.A smooth transition from the top,no jumping on the ball,no thought of the club-head,just the hands accelerating through to the top of the swing.
Some of your swing thoughts ring a bell with me and could lead me to understand my swing more....thanks.

hi Go Low
i was not disagreeing but saying the the body movement added to the effect of the right shoulder tip dropping and if you have say someone new to golf they don't do that naturally but once shown seemed to get the feel and the hips and legs do as you say move to support the body and the diffrent plane of the arms.
i was trying to add that good legs and hips movement complement the arms and shoulder movement and you need good legs and hip movement as well as what you said about the arms and shoulders.
cheers
bill

__________________
ping zing2 metal driver
ping zing2 metal 3 wood
ping eye2 1 iron
ping zing2 3/9 irons
ping ist 47% wedge
ping zing2 52% s/wedge
ping mb 56% wedge
ping c10 G2I broom handled putter
top flight "T" golf balls

sorry , I've been real busy again and I am late on topics, but I wanted to interject on the x-factor, with some more analogies. This one isn't nearly as long.

If all cars that drive 200mph+ have spoilers on them that must mean that if I stick a spoiler on my prius my prius will go 200mph+ right?

Some people made a lot of money of that backward logic. Maybe it is that my prius doesn't go fast enough to need a spoiler and that fact that indy cars go so fast, they need spoilers that is why they have them.

Just as the reason all pro's have huge "x factors" is becasue they do prpoer wieght shift ect. and that happens to give them a 90 deg relationship THATS IT. They don't get any power from x-factor just like the indy car doesn't get any power from a spoiler.

Just like the transmision doesn't provide power to the engine and the legs/hips/body doesn't provide power to the arms.

I have heard that golf is a game of opposites, who came up with that logic? Now that I learned how to swing everything sounds pretty logical to me.

Can we start discussing what's suppose to happen in the downswing?

Both.....lol, my reason is that I have been trying the One Plane Swing forever and it is just not working for me, something is not right and I don't know what it is, so I will just settle for my Two Plane Swing and possibly hybrid swing at times.

For me hear lately I really focused on right shoulder back and down, and I don't really think my swing has ever been on plane,sometimes I might bring it outside the line BS or inside the line, but I think my main deal is on the DS swinging under plane,trying so much to not come OTT. I think I know why I haven't been able to swing on plane or One Plane Swing, I've seen and I do believe that the right elbow moves behind the body,left arm across chest and the DS the right elbow stays back while the forearm pushes down while rotating. I would get my elbow back, left arm across chest ,nice on plane BS and then do Two Plane Swing DS, hip bump,etc..... trying to drop the club into some kind of slot that's not there and really get under plane.

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Dawg

If I read that correctly, I am not saying a 2p is easier. Hell, nothing's easy right now.

(1) When I took lessons (3 I believe) 2 from 1 instructor 1 from another, I asked both of them if they teach 1 or 2 ps, they both said they don't get caught up in that stuff,they said my swing was nice and to keep the club in front of me throughout the swing (makes sense) but that was not the real root of my swing faults.....I do not purposely try to mix components, probably more of a habit or still searching.

(2) I try to keep my left arm touching my more or less the my left pec throughout the swing.

(3) Aprox. 6 in.

(4) & (5) My left arm stays connected on the BS and DS but the triangle probably collapes because I am pulling my right elbow back at the start of the swing....I have been watching Mike LaBauve alot on Golflink and am trying this swing as of yesterday...I think before my BS was to upright and my DS was to underplane, with a hip bump and trying to get the right elbow to my side but I would get stuck alot,so I was always trying to find a way to fix it because the instructors didn't see it or didn't worry about it,I don't know.....But for right now I going to focus on this Mike LaBauve stuff(feels alot different ,but better)

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Dawg

hi Go Low
will the plane not change in the downswing like it is shown in the hogan book you refer to. when the hips and legs move towards the target the swing plane changes and is not the same image of the plane of the backswing.
most if not all pro golfers seen to lower the plan of there down swing.
is it that important the plane of the backswing "IF" you can the the swing on the right plane on the downswing.
cheers
bill

If I read his last post correctly, I think he was saying that you will be more consistent if your backswing is already on the right plane.