passive arms and hands

I ordered Chuck Quinton's DVD about the one plane golf swing and though it had some good information I thought that some of the details were lacking. When he says to start your downswing with the arms lagging behind the body should you do this all the way to the ball or start bringing your hands into the act at about impact. I tried it last night for just a bit and I kept pushing everything right I thing because my hands weren't squaring the club face. Anybody familiar with this type of swing training, I would be very happy to hear your thoughts.

look at this site and follow the videos from Jeff Ritter, he is very good with the one plane swing. Look on Youtube, he has them there also.

http://www.jeffrittergolf.com/wiki/s...ctional-videos

I'm not surprised that you hit block shots by trying to delay the arm movement behind the the body movement. That is a common occurance when the arms get stuck training behind the body (hence the name block shot). If you look at tour pros and read what some of them say you will find that they don't stall the arms.

You've probably heard lots of pros say they were swinging in sync after good ball striking. Look at the swing clip of Annika Sorenstam (one of the most accurate ball strikers today) on the page linked below. Its very evident that the arms and chest are moving down at the same time and relative speed (in sync). If you save the clip and play it in slow motion, step by step, or pause it at multiple stages you will see that her arms aren't getting left behind at any stage of the downswing.
http://www.drop.io/sorenstamsync

Read what Trevor Immelman says about his swing and look at the pictures of him on the page linked below:
http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/f..._reaction.html
In the first green bar he writes: "ARMS & BODY MOVE IN SYNC". In the downswing pictures he writes a caption saying he feels like his arms start down first. Quite the opposite of having the arms lag behind.
http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/f...reaction_7.jpg
Looking at the pictures his chest never out races his hands (not on the back swing and not on the downswing). If light was projecting from his chest it would be eluminating his hands throughout the swing. With the possible exception of the very top of his swing where his hands briefly raise above the rear shoulder.

I's good to experiment and tinker with your swing on the driving range... I tend to agree with the feel of the arms and body moving in sync.

I tried the ol' passive arms approach. It helped to sync my arms a bit with my body but after a while it just didn't work. You really have to have an aggressive turn in your backswing to get your arms going and lifted up into position. Same thing in forward swing to end up with a good follow through. It does reinforce turning your body instead of letting the arms do all the work. But I finally came to the conclusion that you cannot get the club into proper position in the backswing by letting your arms be passive and you don't get the power and control you need in the downswing. So I think you don't want to delay your arms but you do want to delay uncupping your right wrist or your wrist cock. I would say you want your wrists to be loose and passive on your initial move down but not your arms. Read what Paul Wilson says about passive arms. It makes a lot of sense to remove tension in your arms but you still have to move them.

http://www.paulwilsongolf.com/golf_tip_16.htm

Your arms can't be passive on the backswing - Chuck calls that having "limp noodles" and has no way to generate power or accuracy.

If you ordered the DVD, have you joined as a member on his site? Check out all the videos he has on the site and review them. The best one that I have found is called Passive Arms. There, Chuck explains that passive arms are only on the downswing - mostly the start of it and then through impact you can use them if you please.

Also, there is a section of the One Plane/Rotary Hitter - so that could be an option.

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Yeah, avoid "limp noodles"... I was reading somewhere that you gotta have wrists of steel...

I've been really accurate lately by employing what feels like just a body swing ie I use my chest to turn back and through and the ball gets in the way with nothing consciously done with the hands and arms at all. As mentioned above if you had a torch shining from your chest it would illuminate your arms for the whole swing.
OK, this is not conducive to huge distances, but depending on your level, it more than makes up for this with accuracy which is more important for the vast majority of players

hi
i feel like i play with passive arms and hands. after the set up i don't give my hands or arms a thought. i do think of my hips but don't control them by any thought and it feels like my hips start my downswing but there is no thought triggering this movement unless its a subconscious thought.
i feel my hips and shoulder turn and my arms follow in a reflex action. the arms have no other choice but to swing back to the ball if my hips and shoulder turn first.
i find this works really well as you don't have to think about your swing at all.
it is like mariner said in its not the most powerful swing but i do end up on the fairways a lot more than in the rough.
cheers
bill

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just my 2 cents....not a scratch golfer, but this topic has really helped me and just wanted to share my experience. I have gone away from thoughts and focus on feelings after a good shot. Passive arms not in a noodle type of way, but in a way where i can feel the weight of the club head. If i am too tense i noticed i don't feel the club head. I can't tell you if i am now dropping into the slot or not ,all i know is that i can now see the club head hitting ball and my wrist feel like a hammer hitting a nail without having to manipulate it on my own( i have discovered it just happens). I have noticed my tempo is better also...when i get fast or try to hit the ball from the top the shot is erratic. But boy when i feel that rehinge before i come down the ball pops off the club so fast and i hear that THUD that lets me know the shot is going to be close. Driving range one day and played the next and shot 44 with a triple bogey and double bogey on a difficult 9 hole course. So i am excited as the difference in mishits and quality shots have improved over night. My misshits are not as bad now. My quality shots are a lot better.

CLOSING: feel the clubhead lagging behind the hands is working for me

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I'm a member of the "I've overcooked everything Chuck talks about" club.

It seems he's coming from a place where he assumes that you've been actively using your hands and arms to generate speed and hit at the ball, so the feeling will be much more passive arms.

Apparently, I wasn't active enough. Reading some different things on Chuck's site seem to say that you employ arms to get to the top, but then don't add any more energy from there - I've posted over there about when it 'clicked' for me, my phrasing was 'set it and forget it'; and it was just that - I had to feel like I was lifting my arms into position on the backswing, then simply making a synchronized turn through (hips, shoulders, arms, everything turns together), with no notion of adding power, speed or energy anywhere.

Chuck used to have a clip of him hitting a 6 iron in slow motion on the front page of his site - it was a backswing and then what seemed like a synchronized turn through the ball... it's helped my visualisation of how to swing tremendously.

I'm currently working on not-quite-so-passive arms - the idea of 'athletically soft' - and I'm still trying to figure out that feeling. I'm sure it's the idea of 'ready to go' but not rigid or tense. I'll get there...

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For me personally I make a 3/4 turn with the left arm straight as I can.. I feel like the right thumb pulls the left hand a little to keep that width ..I find thats more than enough power for me. If I try and lift at the end things go wrong (wrists collapse etc) but thats a personal thing. My body does the turning but my arms arent 'passive' as such as I use them to get width

As for the DS the key thing with turning hard is you have to trust it .. you have to turn hard left from the bottom up and trust the club will lag and the face will be square. For handsy players this is going to 'feel' like you are going way left or way OTT.

You will be very open at impact (see Gregs impact drill as an example). What I used to do and still do sometimes is stop turning and 'hang on' or steer the club. Thats when I hit pushes. You can also cast, turn the shoulders too quickly or force the release with the right hand and pull. The trick is learning not to do anything with the hands but use them to hold the angles with soft hands .. its hard if youve been a hands led player as I was

The feeling I want is where im turning hard left and holding the angle between my club and hands (i.e. not casting) - I feel like the hips are bumping out to first base, clearing quickly, and the shoulders are swinging out to the left and around

Try taking a wedge and feeling like its bump hips to first base, shoulder turn through and LEFT .. if you do nothing with the club face with your hands it should go straight and feel effortless

Let us know how it goes

In my one plane swing it is arms driven, my lower body only acts and reacts to the rotary action of my arm swing.

I practice by making swings around my body stood upright, I rotate my shoulders, pull my left arm across my chest and let my right arm fold and wrists hinge during the back swing, just like swinging a baseball bat.

In the forward swing the arms are thrown around the torso, the wrist hinge is maintained deep into impact, the right arms straightens and extends into impact while pulling across the left side of the chest, the left starts to fold and pull sharply back thus speeding the release into a small fast arc. You must be prepared turn and pull the club into the release to stop pushes and generate good head speed. The hands should require no particular manipulation other than allowing the extension and folding during the back and downswing.

You can then practice exactly the same swing with your spine angle lowered a little at a time until you are making the exact same rotary swing as you contact the ball.

This style of swing has no need for plane manipulations or conscious synchronised sliding or rotations of the lower body, this happens naturally in anticipation and reaction to the swinging of the arms and shoulders.

A low maintenance, easily repeatable golf swing using active arms.

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Best Regards
Brian

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