I don't think it is body or arms

not sure excatly what a fast-twitch muscle is, but i would think the golf swing uses none of them. the golf swing is is a gradual build i think. it is about gradually letting your release happen. just like a throw, but that comes more natural. they "wind up" then the body is the first thing to move forward, once it can no longer move forward the upper arm starts to move forward, when that can no longer move the lower arm keep going forward, each part of this chain of events getting faster and faster, and then the arm stops and the wrist goes forward releasing the ball.

that is how a whip works. th fat part starts to move forward then it stops and the middle part moves forward adn so on untill the tip releases. only it is a rope so you can't see that happening. get a 4 segmented chain and watch in slow motion how it moves. the staff connected to your arm will go forward and that movment prevents the parts from passing it.

that is why it is impossible to flip your wrist if you are swinging correctly and that swing happens from correct body postions. now if you are naturally athletic it should happen by you trying to move your hand only just as in baseball. however if you have overthought it and ruined the natural process or never had it. then think how you can position your body to move and not let your right arm move and then to move your right arm so that your wrist can move and then finally release the wrist into the shaft and the ball.

i think that is where people get the idea that the body is driving the arms and then the club, i kind of do believe that the body is driving the arms in the way that its forward movement prevents my arm from moving. but that happens naturally when i try to move my hand due to athletisism and growing up throwing things i guess.

try this, i just made it up. the "casting drill" hold a shaft in you right hand standing sqaure like apraoching a ball, then take the club over you head directly behind your back like about to chop down on some wood. then move your arm forward as if a casting or chopping with your arm while trying your absolute hardest to flip your wrist down. i can garantee you do not have enough strenght to flip your wrist WHILE your arm is moving foward. now try the same but about halfway before your arm fully extends stop the forward movement of your right arm. now what happens. the wrist will flip and the club will chop down. do that same drill but move your arm slowly that you will find it slightly easier to acualy fip that wrist. so in the golf swing you need to move your body fast enough to prevent your arms from moving forwad untill your body quits moving forward to let you arm move forward to then stop and let you wrist release. that is probly where peole get the whip the club theory.

that is where casting comes from, people don't have the correct postions to prevent their arm from casting. i cast as hard as i can from the top, but from body and arm movement that stubburd shaft will not release untillmy arm no longer moves forward fast enough to stop it from releasing the club and centrifigal force and gravity also help it uncock.

that is probly why "my arm only won't work people" actually use arms only and not their body to prevent their arms and why they hit it so bad. and "body won't work swingers" try to actually hit with their body that is just hard, try throwing a baseball with your body slinging your arms around like rubber man you would be lucky to throw within 50 yards and 90 deg of your target versus using your hands and throwing with in 5 feet and 1 deg. when i say i am a hands only swinger it is because when i want to move my hand a certain way my body natrually responds and prevents my arm and my wrist from moving and my hands are prescision. you can thread a needle with your hands. why wouldn't you want to control our club with that. for some people thinking hands will naturally allow the body to "block the rest" from ealry release, some have to preactice and slowly drill each phase untill they get it down.

explains alot, that is why people with "false shoulder turns" hit so poorly. if you are not moving your shoulders back, then how can you move them forward to prevent your arm from moving? personally i think THAT is what people mean when they talk about "connection" it is preventing early realease due to properly aligned body parts.

but you have to keep on plane. if you are doing everything proper but get off plane, that allows the early release as well. if the arms takes a differnt plane than the body the body can no longer prevent the arm from releasing.

practice in your mirror and try to prevent your arm from releasing early then work on your wrist and you will crush that ball.

so what do i think powers and controls the swing, i guess it might be better to say proper movement and positions of the body, arm, and hands. and in a way it does start from the ground such as trying to push a car forward, you are actually pushing at the ground and the gorund not moving allows that force to go into the car and push.

I posted this in another thread that I think about sums it up:

Minute 6:20 or so.

that is why i believe technique is very important, but major distance comes from muscle and that is why women cannot hit it as far as men.

nice video though, summed up in 6 mins what i said in probly 30 mins.

kinetic linking is what i was referring to. thanks, good find

I have experimented with this a bit. You say practice in the mirror to prevent early arm release. Just how do you do that? Just will your arm to not move? I have tried to think of the golf swing as a throwing motion since I played baseball. The idea that the body meneuvers into position to whip the arm. I have just not been successful in translating it to the golf swing. I am very good and accurate with good form in throwing a ball. I think I have always been able to get the most of the strength that I have to throw a ball. With ball or bat in hand I can step forward, holding off moving the arms, get solidly planted, then whip the arms through. Why can't I do that with the golf swing? Why can't I just suspend the arm movement while I meneuver into position to swing a golf club yet be able to do it with a bat or ball in hand? What is it in the golf swing that makes that so hard?

One thing different about throwing a ball that I was thinking about is that you are looking at your target the entire time. That is probably what determines when I allow my arm to release. When batting, you are not really trying to hit the ball to a specific target so you are focused on just releasing the energy on the ball. Of course the ball is moving too. So I guess I have to look at my target the whole time or not concern myself with the target. There is an answer in there somewhere.

personally i like to look at the target in the back of my mind's eye, then i think about where the ball is at and how i need to shift my weight extra to hit behind the ball. the only reason i need my eyes open is because 80% or something like that of your balance is in your eysight. i almost feel as if i try to release behind the ball so that i meet the ball at a 90 deg. i think too many people think down the line and it is hard for me to think down the line and hit the ball at a 90 deg angle.

dont know if that is clear (technique is easy to explain then a feel) or if that will work for you, but that is what i use

i kinda of know what you mean. for me the thing that was getting off plane preventing my connection from continueing. since the golf swing is bent over, you have to keep that bend throughout the swing, i would unbend and bring my hips in (toward my toes) and lose my plane and throw my wiehgt off and OTT becuase of that and no good came from it.. i worked on keeping my hips tucked under me and that allowed me to stay on plane and continue the DS connected.

You hit on something I was thinking about that helps me in putting. When I putt I stare down the line and the hole until I burn an image of it in my mind. I was thinking of trying that with my other shots. Right now I get behind my ball and look past it at the hole but after I line up for the shot I completely forget about the target. All of my attention is on the ball. It is hard for all of us to go through a routine consistently I think. We are too impatient to line up and hit the ball.

dont overlook the most fundamental of all, it is all in the grip

haven't seen you in a while tubeseeker.

but it is good advice. i agree no matter how good our technique is, if you dont' have proper fundementals its is all for not.

havent been on the forums much, now I am in costa rica and I will be seeking tubes tomorrow
hope the golf game is good and life as well
seeker

Role of hands in the swing, passive or live ?

Hi Neil,

It's nice to hear from you. Are you still playing golf these days?

not playing much but still working on the game. working on concentration and commiting to every shot. also working with an instructor and seeing some good results given the little time I have spent with him.
my best to you brian
Neil

as live as your hands are in baseball throwing or hitting. if you threw a basesball by twisting your hips or your body forget about the strike zone, i would be surprised if you could throw in the direction of the plate. you want to place that club where you want it.