long iron troubles

ok, i have trouble hitting a 3-iron and sometimes a 4-iron. with these two clubs, my swing needs to be round than upright, correct? i can hit them solidly, but with a cut, i would like have more of a fade or straight ball flight with these clubs.

any help would be greatly appreciated

Start with ball position. Is it more forward? Not quite on your leading heal, but about 1 ball back of that.

Then, if that is ok, start to look at your body sway forward. The longer irons have the desire to be be hit harder to make them go farther. So our brains tell our body to add a littel more to the shot, so the body gets into the act by thrusting more forward toward the target...even a littel will start to cause the ball's position to now be in the middle of your stance causing the slices.

So work on staying behind the ball by rotating your hips and shoulders and keeping the head as still (both vertically and horizontally) as you can.

Hi mike I dont know if you have thought about trying a utility club there are many on the market.This is not the answer to your swing problem but may help in the short term.I just read a readers letter in a golf magazine he had the same problem.He got rid of his 3+4 irons replaced them with utilities and went from a handicap of 20 to 7 within a year hope this helps

You mention the swing has to be more 'around', which is what is should feel like but the club should still be above you right shoulder at the top of the backswing. Don't confuse 'around' with 'flat'. A very flat swing will cause an outside move which is one of the causes of a slice. Okay? Important you understand there is a difference.

I'd like you to check 4 fundementals for me:
1. The ball position - it should be forward, about 2/3rds of the way forward. Because long irons need to be swept, the ball must be forward in the stance but not on the inside of the left heel.
2. Your hand position - there is a tendency for golfers to put their hands ahead of the ball with short clubs and then as clubs get longer, their hands go further and further behind the ball.
3. Your alignment - your feet, knees and shoulders should all be parallel to the target. A slice could result from your alignment pointing too far left (open stance).
4. Club face angle: you'll be suprised how many times golfers (even very good golfers) have the club face open at address. Make 100% sure it is square or slightly closed at address.

With a slice, ball flight laws tell me that you're swing outside-to-inside which starts the ball left and an open club face puts slice spin which then makes it go right and further right.

In practice sessions, check the fundementals all the time and work on 1 given objective. When you practice again, I'd like you to focus on bringing the club down into impact on an INSIDE-OUTSIDE swing path. It's not difficult to do, there are drills which do this affectively.

Once you have that swing path improving then focus on squaring or slightly closing the club face at impact. Again, there are drills to help you achieve this.

To cure a slice takes correcting swing path, club face angle but also making the transition between backswing and downswing smoother. You don't want to cast the club or get your torso in front of the club at impact. A smooth swing is easier to control and keep on plane and on the correct swing path with correct body position.

Drills:
1. Swing path: Place a tee in the ground about 3 inches in front of the ball but just outside the ball's circumference. Using a mid-iron (in your case you can use a long iron or firway wood) and tee the ball up a bit to help you 'smooth' out the swing. Now swing back and down but at impact hit the ball, then the outside tee, before you swing through and finish. Try to finish with the club over your shoulders rather than around your shoulders (rather like Colin Montgomerie).

2. Club face angle: Use any club you like, tee the ball up to help you smooth the swing out (there's no divot or hitting down through impact). As you approach impact, focus on turning the hands 'over' the ball, closing the face. Don't roll the shoulders or the torso as well, this should be a hands only movement. It should send the ball low left, like a snap hook. Hit a few golf balls purposefully closing the club face as much as you can. Then slowly apply less roll of the hands until the shot straightens or there is a slight pull or draw on the ball flight.

A slice is a horrible thing to suffer from and it's caused by a long list of things ... but hopefully this advice will help you.

__________________
Golf is easy ... once you know how.
Graham Arnott, teaching professional
Kelrosa Golf Studios
www.kelrosagolf.com
Class 'A' PGA Member
Full Member: World Golf Teachers Federation (GB&I)

I think I know what Mike is trying to say. With a wedge, your swing plane is very vertical. As each club gets longer and your stance gets wider, your swing plane becomes a bit more horizontal.

You say you are slicing the bal with your longer clubs. I will safely presume that your problem is the same as the problem plagues 99% of the golfing world in that you are swinging from the outside in. What you need to do Mike is work on your swing path to ensure you are coming from the inside. Keep your backswing high. A low backswing encourages an outside in swing path. When you start your downswing drop your arms (right elbow to right hip) until just before impact. You should have the feeling that you are trying to hit the ball to a 1 - 2 o'clock position (if 12 o'clock is your target).

If you are not sure what the proper position is at the top, try this:
In your 'ready' stance, raise your arms to parallel. Then, cock your wrists so that the club is pointed skyward. Last, turn tour shoulders 90*. This should put you in the correct position at the top.

__________________
Gord

Quote of the month:
"It's easy to see golf not as a game at all but as some whey-faced, nineteenth-century Presbyterian minister's fever dream of exorcism achieved through ritual and self-mortification." ~Bruce McCall

Hey gord962 - I'd like to add 1 more thing to what you said above, if that's ok.

Dropping your arms inside doesn't always help. Do you know often happens? Some golfers who don't understand the whole swing sequence drop the arms, get all tucked up and have to cast the damn club out the way in any event! All that work for nothing - all lost. Some golfers even drop the arms AND cast the club outside, believe me I see it often.

Dropping the arms might get the arms inside but the club can still find its way outside! Hey, I often see golfers who drop the arms and the club goes even further inside ...

You need to drop the arms but keep the swing sequence going ... get the left shoulder out the way, clearing the way for the right side to start through and when the hands get to hip height, start the release ... That should happen within 0.2 seconds or so and all within 2 or 3 inches of being on plane.

Ah, golf is so complicated!

__________________
Golf is easy ... once you know how.
Graham Arnott, teaching professional
Kelrosa Golf Studios
www.kelrosagolf.com
Class 'A' PGA Member
Full Member: World Golf Teachers Federation (GB&I)

I definitely agree. If even 1 piece of the mechanics is not correct, many problems can occur. I have seen what you are talking about - instead of dropping the arms and putting the right elbow to the right hip they bring BOTH elbows in and lose their the power generated in the arms. This type you describe almost always ends up on a extremely descending blow and an extremely shallow follw through while spinning out of control.

Canadian Mike,

If it is all getting to confusing I suggest you stop trying to hit your long irons to hard, thats what 99% of all golfers do including me, we have to learn to swing a 3 iron with the same rhythm as a 9 iron.

Ball forward is good advice.


Hope this helps


Ian.

Anybody who struggls with long irons should consider going for hybrid irons or foregoing the long irons and going for a 7 wood.

They are far less intimidating and the additional loft "knocks out" a lot of the side spin factor by hitting the ball higher with more vertical spin. They're great off the tee box too! Also, an added benefit is becuase they are hit with a higher loft, they will hit a green more vertically and slower than a long iron so they're easier to control.

If you want all the technical jazz about why they're easier, I extract some stuff from my library.

Hybrids are the way to go ... got to your retailer and try them - you'll be suprised at the results!

__________________
Golf is easy ... once you know how.
Graham Arnott, teaching professional
Kelrosa Golf Studios
www.kelrosagolf.com
Class 'A' PGA Member
Full Member: World Golf Teachers Federation (GB&I)

i agree completely oin getting the hybrids. but id still like to be able to hit the 3-iron for windy days to keep the ball down. i plan on getting either an 18 or 21 degree hybrids or 19 and 22 degree hybrids, but id still like to hit the 3-iron.

Mike, I would suggest a set of Hogan Edge CFT with the Hybrid 3 and 4 Iron/rescue/wood etc. As far as keeping the ball low into the wind just go dowb the grip of your three wood and swing smoothly. The lack of full acceleration into the ball keeps it lower and helps you keep it straighter as well. I totally removed the need for a 2 iron from my set by building that shot into my game. A standard three wood of about 15° at the top of the grip with a full swing for me goes about 235-250 for me. The same shot down bottom of the grip goes about 210 and nice and low with the added advantage of a bit more backspin than a 2 or 3 iron. Obviously if your a longer or shorter hitter than I you will need to adjust accordingly. Its an especially handy shot off the tee on long par 3's into the wind. helping you keep the ball online without the feeling of trying to rip the cover off the ball to get there with the long iron and the accuracy problems that arise from that.

I used the space created by the 2-iron to add a 7 wood. It started off as an experiment to see if I would actually use it. I have found that it is a really good club for hitting those awkward length shots out of the semi rough (200 yards plus) especially when you have trouble to carry short of the green. If you dont go for the hybrid set give a seven or even a nine wood a try.

One last thing....pick a ball....chopping and changing balls doesnt help. Out of the three you mentioned, the NXT is the best. Alternatively Hogan's The Hawk is an excellent ball which retails for about the same as the NXT.

I've got a very vertical swing plane with my long irons, and oddly, I've found that the "ball forward" position leads to a slice more often than not in my case. Perhaps its because the clubhead has had more time to travel in doing whatever it is i'm doing wrong. I keep the ball in the middle of my stance and i'm usually o.k. with long irons.

Mike:
Someone said "only God can hit a 1 iron" , well it almost applies to a 3 and 4 iron as well; even the pro's went to hybrids rather than be embarrassed at not hitting the long irons well.
Anyway, I like to move the ball back from where you would have it for driver but not too far back, maybe 1 or 2 balls back. Make sure you make a good shoulder turn, transferring your weight to inside of right foot, finish your backswing by getting a good wrist hinge, then, stay down on the shot by feeling as if you are pointing the butt end of the club at the ball to target line as you come into impact.
Important notes:
Grip pressure light to allow wrists to hinge and unhinge
Avoid left arm being bent at impact
Stay with the shot-don't pull up and out of it
Stay loose
Now think about it, you have to do all of this plus alot of what the others have mentioned, just because you want to hit a 3 iron instead of a hybrid.
Hybrids are much more forgiving, easier to hit, and are a good percentage club to use.