Lack of distance

Bradyweb · #1 (**permalink**) 05-22-2005, 10:11 PM

This is now the third year I have been playing golf. My biggest problem is lack of power and distance with all clubs. I am a good sized guy and I know I have just as much strength as the next guy but something in my swing just doesn't allow me to hit the ball as far as others I play with. I hit my 5 iron approx. 145 yards when I hit it well. On par 3's when others are hitting a 9 iron i hit a 6 or 7. My driver just stinks, I can't get any kind of distance at all. Even when I hit it solid and straight it might go 200 yards, but probably 170-180 on average. Any advice?

LowPost42 · #2 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 01:15 AM

Check for a distance-robbing reverse pivot, and beware the out-to-in swing path.

TeachingPro · #3 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 06:59 AM

This is going to be a rather complicated reply to your post but it's important to find which elements of power you are lacking. You should certainly be hitting at least 30 yards further of you are average size.

Power is a factor of the following: timing, force and effective mass.
Force is a factor of: mass and velocity
(these are very well detailed in Mike Hebronj's book called "Swing Secrets and Lies" and Mike Hebron is the Harvey Penick of the modern golf swing - he is the MAN).

So, this is where we start: we have a look at the mass of you 5-iron and the velocity of your 5-iron at impact. We do the same with your driver.
I can then calculate on software I have whether you are in the frame or not.

Once we establish (or adjust your clubs and / or club mass) we have a look at your timing and the effective mass at impact.

Do you have a golf shop close by with a swing analysis system? I need to know your swing speed with a 5-iron and a driver. I also need to know the total weight of your 5-iron and driver (or tell me what make and model and I can look it up).

Okay? Let's start with that and by the end of it I can tell you if you have a "scientific" problem or a swing problem. I can also tell you how to fix either ... It sounds long-winded by often I find people who lack distance have pretty good swings but a simple element of power is missing which has got nothing to do with the swing.

Mr_Change · #4 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 01:24 PM

I'll have to do this to teach, the only problem is the nearest place to me only takes bookings and I can never make the times. I guess I'll have make the time.

Bradyweb · #5 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 01:54 PM

Thanks for the effort you put into that answer. I'll see what I can do, I do actually have an Edwin Watts golf shop right by my work that has the swing analysis system. I may go give it a try.

I have tried several different types of clubs, even really good ones like the Callaway X-16's that my friend has. It always seems to be the same result. I've gotten to where I have a descent looking swing and I hit the ball really solid and straight most of the time but just can't seem to get any distance. I have had a couple of lessons and they have helped overall, but no major improvements have come from them as far as distance goes.

ph_kingston · #6 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 02:00 PM

Graham,

It's no wonder you're the golf pro and I'm the engineer!

I sense some pseudo-science creeping in here.

Ok, some basic applied mechanics can simplify this.

Force = mass x acceleration (that's all you need to know but it's largely meaningless for this exercise)

Kinetic energy = 0.5 x mass x velocity squared...that's the key to the whole thing. You can double the mass of your clubhead and if you swing at the same speed then "theoretically" you'll double the energy you impart on the stationary golf ball at impact and it will travel further. Now, if you double the velocity the energy increases four-fold and the ball will travel much, much further.

In reality it's far more complex than that but the basic principle holds true.

Now increasing the impact at velocity is definitely Graham's territory not mine!

TeachingPro · #7 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 04:42 PM

phkingston, you got it Mr. Engineer! But I need to find out firstly what the swing speed is ... then we look at the mass of the golf clubs and then we look at the energy generated by the swing and the effective mass at impact.

It's very scientific but in extreme cases like Brady's, it's a good place to start. It can be very puzzling why a given swing speed doesn't generate the distance. The answer lies in calculating the energy generated and energy transfered.

The software we use in these cases is seriously cool!

I can even work out if you swing the golf club and maintain 1* degree extra wrist cock, what difference it would make to swing speed at impact; or if you wanted another 10 yards by how much would you have to increase your swing arc.

TeachingPro · #8 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradyweb

I do actually have an Edwin Watts golf shop right by my work

Cool - I love Edwin Watts' outlets! I used to go to the one on International Drive in Orlando quite a bit.

[/quote]I have tried several different types of clubs ... I've gotten to where I have a descent looking swing and I hit the ball really solid and straight most of the time but just can't seem to get any distance. I have had a couple of lessons and they have helped overall, but no major improvements have come from them as far as distance goes.

[/quote]

Clubs won't make too much difference unless you create additional energy and effectively transfer that energy to the golf ball. Within the scope of clubs there are a number of variables that affect energy transfer as well, making it even more interesting.

It's really strange that a teaching pro can't find where you are losing power and therefore losing energy... but we'll give it a good go. I promise.

ph_kingston · #9 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 05:58 PM

Cool software? Now you're talking my language!

It's all getting a bit techie but can you explain what you mean by effective mass? I have a definition of it I use in my work but I don't think it's the same thing that you are referring to.

Cheers

Paul

TeachingPro · #10 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 06:02 PM

Well I will try ... effective mass is not the gross mass of the object but rather a factor of the gross mass of the object which transfers the energy.

In the software training we also battled with the concept but in simple terms: say a golf club weighing 395g is swung but it is a mis**** out the toe, the energy transfer is the same as an object weighing 105g swung at the same speed.

Does that explain it? Sort of?

ph_kingston · #11 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 06:29 PM

Gotcha, so it's basically a measure of how efficiently the energy is transferred from the club to the ball.

TeachingPro · #12 (**permalink**) 05-23-2005, 06:34 PM

Something like that. It's a factor of the club's mass.

I had enough brain power to qualify as a CPA and practice for 10 years. That was about all I could handle before my brain started going on strike!

I'm no engineer or scientist, trust me.

acepepper · #13 (**permalink**) 05-24-2005, 11:33 AM

I sympathise Brady, I have exactly the same problem and in my quest for more distance, my game, over the past six months, has gone down the tube.

irhyper2 · #14 (**permalink**) 05-24-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeachingPro

This is going to be a rather complicated reply to your post but it's important to find which elements of power you are lacking. You should certainly be hitting at least 30 yards further of you are average size.

Power is a factor of the following: timing, force and effective mass.
Force is a factor of: mass and velocity
(these are very well detailed in Mike Hebronj's book called "Swing Secrets and Lies" and Mike Hebron is the Harvey Penick of the modern golf swing - he is the MAN).

So, this is where we start: we have a look at the mass of you 5-iron and the velocity of your 5-iron at impact. We do the same with your driver.
I can then calculate on software I have whether you are in the frame or not.

Once we establish (or adjust your clubs and / or club mass) we have a look at your timing and the effective mass at impact.

Do you have a golf shop close by with a swing analysis system? I need to know your swing speed with a 5-iron and a driver. I also need to know the total weight of your 5-iron and driver (or tell me what make and model and I can look it up).

Okay? Let's start with that and by the end of it I can tell you if you have a "scientific" problem or a swing problem. I can also tell you how to fix either ... It sounds long-winded by often I find people who lack distance have pretty good swings but a simple element of power is missing which has got nothing to do with the swing.

Teaching PRo.

I have the same problem as the fellow that created this post. In fact my nick name among my fellow golfers is "sneaky short" as I maake good contact, but the ball just doesn't go anywhere. There is a shop close to me that will analize a swing for $40.00, and give me all the info you are talking about (swing speed, lie needed etc.). IF I provide you with this info, are you saying that you can tell me where my problem is in lack of distance.

TeachingPro · #15 (**permalink**) 05-24-2005, 05:41 PM

Yep - sure I need the following for your driver and 5-iron:

1. swing speed
2. ball speed
3. point of impact (where the ball is being struck)
4. the weight of the clubs
5. the length of the clubs
6. your arm length

From there I'd have a pretty good idea.

I'm like you: S-N-E-A-K-Y SHORT!! I also only drive it 250/260yards with my Launcher 460. Nice thing is I know why - my clubhead speed is only 90mph on average.
If I ever went to play on tour again - I'd work on getting it to 105mph at least. With my swing and energy transfer, that will knock the distance up to 285yds.

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