Loft

I keep hearing people say that it's not the club length, but essentially the loft that determines the club. So does this mean that if I turn my 7i slightly down (by moving the shaft further forward at address, the clubhead angle will decrease), it in effect becomes a 6i or even a 5i? How do I know then what's the correct placement for each club?

I know I must be missing some basic concept here.

I struggled with this for a loooooong time, Simon. And yes, loft is the primary effector of distance.

Basically how I play is that the shaft should be pointing straight away from me - not angled forward or back - for any regular full swing shot. A while back I had posted that I was getting fantastic distance, etc, but I was using an extreme forward press, effectively delofting all my clubs.

So, the correct placement of the club is with the shaft straight, and the leading edge slightly off the ground (most irons have only 3º of bounce).

How sad! In my 5 months of golf, I have never been able to hit more than 110yds with my 7i. Last week, my coach asked me to do exactly a bit of forward press with the club, and yesterday I was hitting all of 140yds with my 7i! Then it got me thinking, was I in effect turning my 7i into a 5i or something (since the club length doesn't make that much difference)? Guess I got the answer now

Now I'm eager to go back to the range and see what kind of distance I can get with the shaft straight out and not forward. I was hoping the increased distance was due to the adjustments I made in my swing instead

So I'm curious, can I just do away with my 6i by using this exact concept of a forward press (and delofting) with my 7i??? Why don't people employ this tactic???

This was the same thing that got me hitting 9i from 150 as opposed to 7i (the forward press).

The reason why (IMO) people don't carry less clubs and simply forward press is that it's imprecise. How far forward did you press? It's much easier to grip up/down the club and keep the club the same, relative to your setup, to vary distance.

I went online in search of pictures of pros setting up with their irons, and I haven't found any of them setup with a forward lean to their club. They all point more or less straight down.

__________________
True Length Technology Fitter - www.truelengthtechnology.com
It's live! - www.ShipShapeClubs.com
PCS Class 'A' Clubfitter

A new highlight: Golfing the home course on Christmas Day.

I say it too often: If it's golf club shaped, you can play with it.

For the record, I'm a club doctor, not a swing doctor.

I suppose... So are you back to 150 with the 7i, or has your distance since improved from making changes to your swing?

Don't you mean that the shaft is pointing straight AT you? How can it point away from you?

If you or anyone would be willing to say more about the concept of bounce and how it figures into things, I'd be grateful. Maybe another thread is needed.

Finally, the forward press is something you do at setup, or, for some people, as a swing trigger. I take it that the purpose of the forward press is to encourage a return to that position, i.e., club head lag, at impact. Club head lag delofts the club in exactly the same way, no?

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Todd
Philadelphia, PA
USA

The reason the pro tells you to keep your head down is so you can't see him laughing. ~Phyllis Diller

Yes, the butt of the shaft is pointing straight at me. Maybe I should say that the shaft if perpendicular to my body line?

Yes, clubhead lag dynamically delofts the club.

I've come across this explanation of what bounce does - to resist digging the clubhead into the ground. But what bounce IS, is the measurement that the leading edge of the club sits off the ground. When soled properly, most irons have 3º of bounce. A forward press and/or closing the face reduces effective bounce, while a backwards press and/or opening the face increases effective bounce.

Just like in the sand. Light and fluffy, you want a high bounce club so that the club doesn't dig too deep into the sand, and a low bounce club if you're playing in a clay pit, so that the club does dig.

__________________
True Length Technology Fitter - www.truelengthtechnology.com
It's live! - www.ShipShapeClubs.com
PCS Class 'A' Clubfitter

A new highlight: Golfing the home course on Christmas Day.

I say it too often: If it's golf club shaped, you can play with it.

For the record, I'm a club doctor, not a swing doctor.

Well they do, but not in the same way.
For example, the pro's deloft the club (every club) by about 6 degrees at impact.
Now if you do this at address (via a forward press) thats all well and good, technically you should be doing it with lag, but, as we all know, that aint easy.
As long as you are not doing anything too extreme, your club and forward arm should be one straight line, you are fine.

Ah I see now.. So I might have to use this forward press at address, if I am not lagging the club sufficiently in my downswing. Well that seems like a good idea in simplying the swing, because at address I am already trying to mimick the same position at impact. I see why now, as my coach is teaching me to swing with the hands (shoulders and hips follow only due to the momentum), reserve K position at address, and forward press at address. The forward press at address is probably part of this swing technique. If that's the case then I am really getting some good results - from 110yds maximum ever with the 7i to more than 140yds overnight.

Thanks Todd for bring up the point that lag creates this delofting dynamically at impact. That clears up everything!

Your initial setup may have the butt of the club pointing directly at you but your impact shouldnt return back to that position.

As you all know, your hands must be infront of the ball at impact. If not, you will lose a lot of power as your body weight is not behind the ball. I think the forward press that you are doing is actually correcting your impact position (to where the loft of the club should be).

Were your ball flights prior to doing the forward press seem like it had no oomph and it just kinda floated up. If so, your hands are probably behind the ball. If your ball flights when doing the forward press are still getting good height, then all you have done is corrected the impact position.

Indeed, my 7i has always produced very high shots. Now with the forward press (not as a trigger but as an address position), the ball now shoots out of the club in a much lower trajectory and has gained at least 30 more yards.

I think I have figured this out. What my coach has been teaching is to mimick the impact position at address, making things less complicated and allowing me to really swing with my hands. In a way it makes sense, why go through so much movements when you can have that address position, swing back with the hands and come back there real fast. I know this is against the old school, and I hope I'm not generating any controversy here But I've seen it work and I must say it's quite effective. But perhaps at a more advanced stage, I might want to switch to the classic swing (with the hips, shoulder etc) - maybe that can even give me a few more yards per club.