crossing the line

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum but have been enjoying reading posts the last week and it seems to be a friendly place to learn. I am a 5 handicap leftie. I hit the ball a long way and in the main where I want to! My problem is that about 18 months ago I taped my swing and was horrified to see that I not only overswung but severely crossed the line, not as far as Daley but along those lines. This lead to 18 months of frustration as I have slowly tried to shorten my swing and get the club in the slot at the top. I cant put a video up currently but my swing was based on Nicklaus, i.e. no wrist cock and massive shoulder turn.

Currently I still cross the line as best I can see using a mirror, but the club is basically at parallel or sometimes short (a little like the early Tiger swing), so some improvement but not perfect. I am trying to focus on keeping my legs firm, particularly my back leg, and taking the triangle back (i.e. one piece and not to the inside).

That's a lot of bumf there but my basic question is whether any of you have managed to successfully stop crossing the line and how you managed to achieve it, or whether any of the instructors here have any advice.

thanks

A year ago, on a lesson with my coach he said my inconsistencies in my shots were due to my overswing. I worked hard using a drill he gave me, looking in the mirror and a feeling at the top of my swing. In just a matter of weeks I was no longer overswinging. I used to be able to see my clubhead at the top of my swing without moving my head.

the drill is to stand against a wall as if hitting towards it, move a little to the left in your case but to the right for right handers. this amount should be enough so that if you overswing your clubhead will hit the wall. Go up the top of your swing and feel this position. It'l probably help if you imagine feeling your swing short of parallel. Don't actually swing though as you'll damage the wall, your club and probably injure yourself.

When practsing feel as if your wrists are really strong at the top, as if resisiting going over the line. If your wrists go loose at the top, then the clubs momentum will take the club past parallel.

I hope this helps

__________________
Craig

My bag:

Taylormade r7 9.5* Stiff stock shaft
Sonartec SS2.5 3+ 13* Stiff Fujikura Tour Platform shaft
Taylormade Utility 2 16* XS Fujikura TP stock shaft
Titleist 904F 4 wood 17* Stiff Aldila NV85 shaft
Mizuno MP67 3-PW S300 shafts
Cleveland 588 47*, 53*, 56* DSG, 60*
Odyssey White Hot #4 putter

also try the Tee Tip.
For a rightie you would place a tee under your left hand parallel to the shaft with the fat end pointing out.
Now make a swing and see if the tee falls out.
If it does you are losing (loosening) your grip on the backswing which results in a loss of control and also can let the club drop so it passes parallel.

Might be worth a try.

Nice tip, Gree. cmays posted a tip about how you can't really overswing if you're grip pressure is consistent throughout the swing - in other words, your grip may be loosening at the top. The other thing that can lead to the club going past parallel is a revese pivot and dip - in other words, your weight is over your lead leg at the top, and you've dipped your shoulders to finish your 'turn'.

Thanks for those replies - some real good tips to try there. I have been worried about letting go of the club at the top and have really tried to watch this. Funnily enough I do feel that my bottom hand (my left) sometimes gets loose. I'll try some of those tips above.



The other part of my question was the crossing the line as well. When I keep my legs tight and coil well (hopefully with firm grip!) I still cross the line even if I am short of parallel. I guess I over turn and possibly bring the club to the inside - do you have any drills or tips on that?



Your help is much appreciated

A 5 handicap that hits it a long way! Why would you want to change? Most golfers would love to play to a 5 let alone have the ability to hit it long. A quick question, how bad did your game get after you saw the video?

Re crossing the Line:


I had a problem with crossing theline and after viewing several videos I took of my swing, I found it was caused by the rear ( right leg in my case being right handed) possibly left in your case, straightening on the back swing which ultimately fails to tighten the coil on the backswing and allows overswing and crossing of the line particularly so that the club is pointing right of the target. Just try and keep the flex in the right ( left your case) knee all the way to the top. Should result in nice parallel position at top and extra distance.
Hope this helps
Jimw

Hi Nick,

It hard to help without seeing your swing however, across the line can be a couple of things....................please check

Cupped right wrist.................make sure it is flat at the top, this will push the club back on line....take your swing to the top and stop then straighten your right wrist.

Releasing the club in your right hand at the top..............put a £20.00 note between the but of the club and your right hand...........problem solved you will not drop it.

You mentioned that you are not "inside" going back, this would be the other cause.....!!

Good luck


Ian.

__________________
Once you learn the swing, your next step is mastering golf psychology................

Some more great posts - thanks for your help

MPLAVLEGL - my trouble is I am a bit of a perfectionist, shelves filled with golf books! I just want to get as good as I can. Initially my game got better when I managed to stop the overswing (which was mainly caused by over turning my hips and not having enough resistance in my legs - with some of all the above posts factored in at some point). Now my game is so, so. I go from the sublime to the ridiculous and just want a bit more consistency.
Jimw - I definitely focus on that keeping back leg flexed, I do however have a tendency to get onto the outside of that back foot if I get sloppy. Any tips?

Ian - I really do struggle to get the flat wrist and this area is one I have looked at of late. A lot of instructors say there should be a slight cupping, but on this board a lot of people mention the top wrist should be flat. Is this a function of grip or should I consciously try to flatten the wrist?

cheers for your help

Hi Nick,

This is a major cause of the across the line swing, as you say most have a slight kink in the wrist, but looking at the reflection in a mirror or window it will look straight.

Tiger is the other way his is bowed the opposite way, check out the picture.




Hope this helps


Ian.

I've worked hard at 'compacting' my backswing and have found that if I concentrate on keeping both knees still in the downswing I find it very hard to get past 3/4's never mind parallel. To do this I basically

1. Kicked my right knee in a little at address and tried to feel as if the knne keeps pointing towards the ball during the backswing

2. Take the club back low and slow on a gentle inside path. Like the big semi circle idea, not too steep and not too flat

3. Completely forgot about my wrists, just kept them loose but not so loose they break down at the top or the opposite of trying to force them into a cupped or flat position (this was a killer for me, trying to manipulate the wrists, I get a nice very slighty cupped position if my backswing plane is spot on .. if it isnt I get cupped or bowed)

4. I just turn the shoulders along the backswing line, I dont concsiously lift my arms/hands

I found doing all this I couldnt turn my shoulders much further than 3/4's as Im not that flexible. Indeed I now realise that if I do its because my swing has got to flat (too much body pivot) or too steep (lifting with the hands). This has given me much more accuracy if a little less distance

Ian - thanks mate - I'll look further into this. Do you think a flat wrist happens naturally or is forced? i.e. should I manipulate my wrists to get flat at the top? Cant really compare myself to Tiger's genius but I do feel when he gets too bowed at the top he hits the ball all over the park.

Pnearn - a lot of what you describe is stuff I try to do, although point number four, focussing on turning my shoulders sometimes gets me too much inside and across the line at the top. When I first taped my swing my shoulder turn seemed to go on forever, seriously way through 120! this was due to my legs not providing enough resistance. Its left me a bit paranoid about turning my shoulders now. I love to turn them as much as I can and smash the ball but when I do this I tend to get across the line (see the club out of my lead eye).

All above posts have been great, thanks all, plenty for me to try. Please keep any tips coming

I do have one suggestion for you to try to stop going past parallel in your backswing. You can try to get a mental image of where you want your backswing to end. You can then swing to this point and not worry about whether or not you go past it. If you concentrate on trying to transistion at the point you have imagined then you will start hitting some good shots. I believe the game is all mental when you have a low handicap and just feeling the point in the backswing where you think you should stop will help you get there unconsiously in the future.






Good luck and remember no negative thoughts they can ruin a good golf swing.

Re CRossing the Line

Nick,
Two points to consider.
1. Golf is played between the feet. To interpret that you need to understand that by ensuring that the distribution of weight at address is on the insides of both feet which does two things: It ensures that the rear leg does not move or buckle on the backswing but only turns. It also assists in tightening the turn thus more control, distance and accuracy as you have ensured the weight transfer is containined in the correct location.
2. Re the flat right wrist in your case. If you observe different golfers you will notice that some have what is termed a flying right elbow. This generally makes the wrist bow slightly, which according to the pros is acceptable. ( not so much the flying right elbow but the slightly bowed ( concave) wrist. In the case of people who have the flat wrist you will notice that the right elbow is pointing downward somewhat more extreme than most. I understand from my coaching that the right elbow should point down or at least be parallel to the spine tilt ( forward) that is engaged at address.
3rd . I agree with Chads reply if you make practise swings and just feel the correct position, this will greatly help. Dont get caught up to much in the technical aspects or your golf will take forever to improve.
Hope this assists

Regards
Jimw

Thanks Jim - actually thinking about the elbow (left in my case) is a good point and one that i hadn't really thought about. In the mirror mine is basically parallel with my spine but i am going to double check this tonight.

You are right about getting too technical - I am definitely my own worst enemy at times, but i am the type of person who definitley needs at least one swing thought to play. Cant wait to get on to the course this weekend and experiment with some of the above tips.

nick