Starting the downswing

Found an interesting article...

"There are many theories on what should start the downswing. I find that most players who think about pulling with their left arm from the top will create a more consistent swing with all body parts working together. Many players from watching the tour players tend to try to lead the downswing with the left side, and as a result slide ahead of the ball at impact causing weak slicing shots. "

I think the key part here is
A) leading with arms = more consistent for most players
B) leading with left side = pro swing

if you are all A or all B you are probably ok (though you could argue that B will give a "better" swing)
The problems occur when you are kinda A and kinda B
(like I am right now) Transition is a *****.

Your qualifying statement was "most tour players", Chad.

Hands up all the tour players...............not many? Ok then, those of you with your hands up over in that corner with Chad, the rest of us choppers who dont practice 6 hours a day over here.....

I jest, of course, Chad. I dont disagree with you, many of the very top players do that, it results in a big hip turn and lots of power. It's a hard thing to get right (I know I tried it, many balls lost, very sad) and I dont think many players have the patience to work on it because it can be very destructive. I think most weekend players really need to concentrate on hitting the ball with the hands. Imagining the back of the left hand as though it was being used to hit the ball, almost like a left handed backhand in Tennis.

D.

__________________
Longniddry Golf Club Champ 2005.

In the Taylor Made Bag:

Callaway FT-3 Tour 9.5 Aldila NV 65S

Callaway Steelhead 3 Wood

Callaway Steelhead 5 Wood

Callaway X-16 3-PW

MacGregor Tourney 52 Degree

Cobra Phil Rodgers 59 Degree Rusty

Odyssey DFX 2-Ball

Callaway Tour iX

I know we did this to death a while ago in the transition thread but it really is a trial and error exercise. Whatever you do though IMO its key that the following occur

1. The shoulders dont spin out early
2. The right hip doesnt spin out early
3. The posture/spine angle is maintained
4. Your upper body stays behind the ball until impact

I find by simaltaneously pushing my feet down into the ground and pulling my arms down on an inside to outside line I get the best results By pushing down with my feet this gives me leverage and keeps my posture by getting me into a 'squat' position.

If I try and lead with my legs/hips/left side I have a tendency to let my hips fly up and to the right which brings me out of my posture

Its definiately what you 'feel' that counts here and as a beginner i think its worth trying out different approaches with nice easy 3/4 swings

This thread is for Mizuno Man.
I know there has been a lot of discussion on this topic but I did want to reply to your comments. First of all I do not pretend that I am a tour player. I am a low handicap player. I was always a baseball player in high school and took up golf in college. I always had good hands so the game a little easier to me than some. I have been working on my game for 4 years reading and trying new things to become a better player. My main problem in my swing was coming over the top and trying to hit from the top. I believe if you try to start the swing with your hands you are going to come over the top. I truly believe that. Myself for example used to try and control my swing with my hands I ended up hitting some good shots but it wasn't very consistent. My biggest problem was pulling the ball which I believe is directly related to starting the swing with the hands. The thing that clicked for me was about 4 months ago. I was searching the internet for instruction on this very idea when I came across Joe Pena. He has a internet book which is very simple, only about 6 pages but it changed my golf game forever. His approach is very simple and includes making sure the weight transfered on the backswing goes into the right heel then making a swing using a hip bump. It sound simple but it worked for me. I tried the system and stuck with it. After only 4 months of this I won my club championship with rounds of 69, 70 consecutively.
I am not saying this will work for everyone but it may.

Temper Temper Chad,


I agreed with you!!! I just meant that a lot of guys who dont play too much could give themselves real problems trying your suggestion. Thats all.....

I disagree with your comment that starting the swing with the hands causes a pull. I have the same problem and it always seems to come from starting the swing with the shoulders. I was looking this up and the whole thing with starting the swing with the hands is actually older teaching method. Nowadays they try not to emphasise it and do indeed teach what you have been reading up on. But again its for top guys and those developing a swing.

Hands first is great for a smooth fluid motion and promoting a nice tempo but not so great for maximum distance. So it all depends on what you want from your swing, personally I dont play 7000 yard monsters all that often and I shift the big stick maybe 270 and the 7 iron about 165 so I dont need any more distance. Accuracy is key for me and a lot of the guys who post here, I would imagine.

D.

__________________
Longniddry Golf Club Champ 2005.

In the Taylor Made Bag:

Callaway FT-3 Tour 9.5 Aldila NV 65S

Callaway Steelhead 3 Wood

Callaway Steelhead 5 Wood

Callaway X-16 3-PW

MacGregor Tourney 52 Degree

Cobra Phil Rodgers 59 Degree Rusty

Odyssey DFX 2-Ball

Callaway Tour iX

Well said. This is a good discussion because I believe this is the most important thing about the swing. I believe you can be a bad golfer and have a pretty good backswing but the downswing is where its at. Thanks for the posts. I agree with you on the point about the shoulders causing the pull that is definitely some of the same problems I have had in the past.

Everyone play good this weekend.

Just to add to this my teaching pro said to me the other day when I asked him the same question that most mid-high handicappers have fast bodies and slow arms, that is their bodies outrace their arms on the downswing leaving the club off plane and the clubface open

His view was that it paid to at leasr try and speed up your arms and one way to do that was to feel as if you start down with your arms and your body catches them up (rather than the other way round)

Worth playing with anyway

["There are many theories on what should start the downswing. I find that most players who think about pulling with their left arm from the top will create a more consistent swing with all body parts working together. Many players from watching the tour players tend to try to lead the downswing with the left side, and as a result slide ahead of the ball at impact causing weak slicing shots. "

I think the key part here is
A) leading with arms = more consistent for most players
B) leading with left side = pro swing

if you are all A or all B you are probably ok (though you could argue that B will give a "better" swing)
The problems occur when you are kinda A and kinda B
(like I am right now) Transition is a *****.]


Question: I start my downswing by pull my left shoulder up, this enables my right shoulder to drop down, thus my right elbow comes close to my body (drops to the slot). is this (B) move? am i on the right track?

thanks in advance.

Eric

I dont think so.
If you watch a pro swing in slo-mo you will see that they "bump" their hips towards the target and start to turn them before they start back with the club.
Their hips are nearly 90 degrees away from the target at impact ; huge power.
Consciously lifting your target shoulder doesnt sound too good to me
How are you hitting them?
I would think that would give you a lot of fat/thin shots as it seems as if it could make you bob up and down a bit.

thanks for the reply, GreeBoman.

sorry I forgot to mention that my lower body bump towards the target and turn before I start to pull the left shoulder up and back. my lower body is very active it tends to slide torwards the target right way after the transition. so I don't need to think about my lower body bump and turn action consciously. my first swing thoughts after backswing is pull my left shoulder up and back.
what's the difference between this action and 'pull the left side' action?

I hit shots with this swing thoughts OK, no fat/thin shots. if i forgot to pull my left shoulder up, i will slide too much towards the target and hit a big slice because of the open club face. the problem is that by doing this pull action, my leftside neck muscle will sore a bit. so i'm not sure if it's the right thing to do.

I guess i just need to know what is "pull the left side" really mean?

eric

Good point pnearn this is what my pro said too, although he was specifically referring to the right elbow rather than the body. Quite a few of us students had this problem, and when the right shoulder races ahead of the hands, you invariably end up with pushes and slices.