Right elbow led takeaway

My lastet work in progress is to try and make sure I get as much width in my swing as I can whilst keeping the 90 degree angle in the right forearm/elbow at the top (very much the Hogan position). I've been experimenting with different takeaway feelings to try and make this easier. I would 'guess' right now I have more One Plane Swing components to my swing

Setup is fairly standard. About a 2-4 inch tilt to the right to set the right shoulder on a level plane when I turn and my right arm 'soft' and elbow pointing to right hip

Anyway yesterday I was messing about with the feeling that my right elbow led the takeaway with the feeling that it was my right elbow pushing the bottom of my rib cage to 'turn' my right side. I found when I did this that my left arm would stay straight so I got the width, my arms wouldnt turn too flat, my shoulders stayed level and my right elbow was in bang on the right position at the top, just where I wanted it with a nice flat left wrist. From there a nice gentle hip turn had me hitting some lovely draws

Question i have is for those One Plane Swing'ers and Hardy advocates out there. Is keeping the right elbow tucked right in at the start a bad thing providied the hands stay in front of the club head as the right side turns away? I cant see why but before I go work on this move some more Im keen to know if it wont do me more harm than good in the long run. A right elbow led takeaway sounds odd but I think this was something Hardy talks about in his book (I dont have it)?

there is a take away called a right forearm pick up or right forearm take away, it creates width. first move back is right wrist cups then the right forearm picks up. For more info go to http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/forum/ you have to register but some of these people REALLY know their stuff

Thats really interesting

I think that right forearm pickup was ostensibly what i was doing yesterday with good results. Simply feeling that I took the right forearm/elbow to the top with a flat left wrist. Less of a pivot

I'll play around with it some more. This Brian Manzilla chap seems to think this is move a number of pro's make?

in this it is less of a conscious pivot, but not necesarillly less of a pivot. Hogan said that he started his backswing by moving the hands first, then arms, shoulders, hip and reversed that order in the down swing

Shootin

I can see this is a good move in that it is far easier to get the club to the right place at the top. However how much power would you lose without the coil of the shoulder turn? I really didnt notice much of a power loss when I was playing about with this at the end of last week?

done correctly and there should be no power loss, more likely power gain. Like i said in another post, done correctly and the pivot should still be there and you should wind up more coiled and waiting to unwind.

Shootinn, you teach right? Is this something new in teaching or would you continue to teach a shoulder pivot. Hit balls with this move again last night and its a revelation. Feels like a much shorter turn back but a much better turn through

This is interesting. Does it go back to the age old question - are you right arm or left arm dominant? I've recently started trying to be more left arm dominant actually. One of the books I was reading (I think it's called Knowing Your Swing), is advocating solely to be left arm dominant, and just let the right arm play whatever minor supporting role it needs to play. But I think ultimately, whatever works to get your in the right position? The author brought up a very good point though, and that is you have to be conscious of where your hands are in every part of the swing. If you envision that and keep with the checkpoints, then you are ok.

Sorry pnearn, didn't mean to play devil's advocate here. In fact, you know me by now, I will definitely try out your suggestions on the right elbow led swing (you know I can't help it) :P

Simon

This move might also help you with the flat left wrist you are after at the top

If you feel like you pull up with your right forearm and push your right wrist back with your left hand you'll feel the flat left wrist at the top. This more your arms and hands getting you to the top rather than relying on a pivot move. Its very hard to do this move and end up without a flat left wrist provided the right elbow stays pointing down

Things to check with this move is that you have a slight lean away from the target at address ( reverse K) and stay in your posture. Be interested to know how you get on with it. Remember half and 3/4 swings first :-)

I teach a little. In some instruction, golfing machine, this has been taught for a while. Check out hogans book and see where he talks about the hands moving first, is he talking about the same thing just not worded the same? I have read MANY golf books but have not found this in much. If you get the right arm moving away from you it creates width and you will get a full turn. You only FEEL lik you are not turning, go look in a mirror and you should notice, again as long as you get width, that you are turning every bit as much. The turn through is better because everything stays more connected, there is no play. Also, I dont see the need to start out with shorter swings on this, in some ways it is easier to start with full swing but that may be person dependent.

Yes, it seems to directly contradict the whole sweep the club away notion or turn the triangle although I suspect this is just a feel thing. Lifting the right forearm probably does encompass a sweeping motion but also gets some vertical motion into the swing earlier for those (like me) who may struggle with disconnection and lateral movement in the takeaway

if you get the extension, you can put that on video and it will look like it is sweeping. The objective is to get it going away and up, if you get it going around it will pick up quickly, if you get it going away it will not.