Shoulder Turn?

I have always found making a correct shoulder turn a real problem and as of now have not been able to perform it properly. I have found a method which seems to work, but do not want to fully commit to it straight away incase it happens to be incorrect and gets me into a bad habbit. I would always start to turn before my arms would become detached from my body causing my rotation to stop halfway back meaning I had to finish the backswing entirely with my arms which lost me power.

I now make a real effort to push my shoulders towards the target at address before turning with my chest in the opposite direction letting this momentum take my arms all the way to top, in comparison to swinging with the arms themselves. Tensing the shoulders in this way at address is the only method I have found which seems to allow me to complete a full turn but am concerned as from what I have heard, you should never be tense or stiff in the golf swing. I gets good results though! What do you think? (hope this all makes sense, and sorry about the length)

I have a foward nudge to help me swing backward while keeping my head (lateraly) still. I have found that I get a bit less of a shoulder turn this way, but if I don't do that nudge, my head moves back and my shoulder turn is a bit further back, but that is because my hips go with them. The key to power is to increase your X factor (the difference in turn between the hips and shoulders). When I get a high X factor I feel tighter, which it feels similar to stiff, but as long as you stay loose in the arms, it is okay to feel tight in the left leg, back, and shoulders. That built up torque is what helps you unwind more naturally and stay loose so you don't have to force the downswing which usually makes you stiffer. I'm no pro but that is what I have found. Hope that helps

they say your swing should be tight and not light

Sam:that is exactly the way i take my club/clubs back.I have the same problem intermittently when i turn with the shoulder halfway back then let the arms take over..this kills the swing...when and only when i allow the shoulders to take the arms all the way to the top is when i make my best contact.When i do it correctly there is no guessing on when i should let the club come in on plane...the shoulders dictate the only plane they know..and for me that is the correct plane..as i generally "spankit" when i let the shoulders "push" the arms all the way to the top..i was on the range today practicing for 18 holes in the morning and my last thought when i drove off was.."let the shoulders take the backswing all the way to the top"..so its funny tonite i see your post on that same thing..sorry for my long post also-David

this all sounds rather complicated. To promote a correct shoulder turn, try putting a headcover under you left armpit and keep it there through the back and fowardswing. this will help you feel the connection between the left arm, shoulder and chest.

I think you are along the right lines personally

I like to get setup right, with connected arms and torso, elbows pointed down at hips and proper posture/balance. Also the correct spine tilt away from the target line. This is all VITAL

I then like to imagine that I pivot around one central point. This (for me) is my upper sternum (the point right in the centre of your chest)

I feel as if I turn the connected arm/torso unit (the triangle) using this focal point. This then turns the arms. During the takeaway the butt of the club will point at this focal point (chest). This is full connection in the Ballard theory. From there just keep turning that chest until it points directly behind you (or even futher depending on flexibility), all the while keeping that postuire and spine angle. The right arm will disconnect from the chest as it folds but the left arm will stay connected

You are absolutely spot on (IMO) that you should never lift the arms, manipulate the wrists etc. Just let that turn get you back. Provided you stayed in your posture and stayed connected in the takeawat , you should have a much better chance of staying on plane

In the downswing, you reverse this where you simply rotate that central point back around again, trying to get it to point 45 degrees left of the target line. Done with soft arms this whips the club through

http://www.golfdigest.com/search/ind...304akins2.html

Shootin will probabaly disgaree with me but this to me is Ballards connection theory or maybe a pivot controlled hands motion in TGM speak

Having that one 'focal' or centre point to turn, and removing the hands/arms has helped me enormously. Not to say one or the other is right though but if you struggle with a hands led backswing (as I used to) this may be a really beneficial feeling

HTH

Thanks very much for the replies everyone. Good to see I'm somewhere along the right track.

I will disagree with you???? not me
the difficulty with a shoulder turn take away is that it is easy for it to get too flat.

i went to the Champion's Tour Regions Memorial Classic today in Birmingham-Alabama.Had a blast following Scott Simpson/Brad Bryant/Hale Irwin.Before i went out on the course i went down to the range to watch them get loose.They ALL had this one thing in common in their backswing:They take the club back with a Turning of the Shoulders until the club is at the top of backswing...and man Brad Bryant is a terror off the tee..he would consistently outdrive his playing parters by 25-30 yards each time.He doesnt seem to be hitting his Cleveland driver any harder than the others but man does he "spankit" off the tee.Got tix for tomorrow too..just hope it doesnt get rained out.David

spankit,
If I take the club away with my arms/hands, or shoulders, you would never be able to tell the difference, they would all look connected

shootin4par:yeah i guess you're right..only thing is..with a arms/hands takeaway..the arms have a tendency to try and take over the swing..letting the shoulders fall behind and quitting so to speak and wrecking the shot....with me it does anyway.Yeah as long as the shoulders keep rotating to the top..things are fine..i dont know man..it just seemed that they keyed off of turning the left shoulder rearward and then upward to the top.I watched Scott Simpson after his round on the range for a half hour..son you talk about a consistent tempo..he has it.Same swing no matter if hes got driver or wedge.I think im gonna try his pre shot routine my next round ...heres what he does..Takes one practice swing.. during which he looks as though he's pretending that he's actually hitting a ball..he follows thru to a full finish and holds it there and heres the kicker ..stares it down for several seconds as if he is visualizing it flying to the target and waiting for it to land..Several times i heard people in the gallery say "where did it go"?..Anyway shootin nice talkin to ya-David.

hey david,
that sounds like an awesome pre shot routine, let me know how it works out, I would be interested.

Here is my take away
first move back I CONSCIOUSLY cup the right wrist, then the next move is I push the left heel pad to the top[. all I have to do is do that and maintain spine angle. I get so wound up on the back swing and the down swing is pretty automatic. The key to an arm take away is to not let it get around your body, if so the shoulders will stop moving. try this, not necesarilly to change your swing, but just for knowledges sake. Go in front of a mirror. Take your left thumb and stick it out. now grip it with your right thumb, pointer finger and middle finger. Now get into set up position. from there pull your left thumb to the top with your right hand, tell me where your shoulders are.

Just a question for my own education. When speaking of "arms" during the take away, however you get the club to the top, does anyone now days make a distinction between the forearms, and the upper arms? Way back in years gone past, when instructors spoke about the arms, they usually meant the upper part of the arms. The part from the elbows to the shoulders. Where ever the the upper part of the arms went in the the swing, they stayed with the shoulders, while not letting the forearms, and the hands gain too much control during the swing. Just wondering if that distinction is still made? GJS

exactly what he is doing, alot of people like to visualize everything down to it rolling into the cup

the guy who has the record for most hole in ones swears by it, he says the more vivid the better chance he has

shootin:im interested in the cupping of the right wrist you said you make to start the takeaway.Does this move promote getting the clubface opened up halfway back?How much do you cup it?I have seen this move made on a commercial for the "swing glove" and i was thinking.."what the heck are they doing there"?Well im getting ready to go out to the Regions again today for the final round.They have pushed back tee times 1 hour due to rain ..not raining now but its overcast..hoping they will get it in.Great golf out there from the round bellies(like me).Check back in with ya later on that cupping wrist thing.David