a simplified version of the back swing

just one version of how to swing it back.
start out cupping the right wrist like I mentioned in the waggle and cup thread, and chipping thread.
so first move back is cupp the right wrist, then once it is fully cupped push with the heal pad of the left hand while maintaining spine angle. pushing with that heal pad will cock the left wrist and turn the shoulders, ernie els, according to his book, does some thing similar to this.

when doing this imagine a person standing behind you and when you push, push the butt end of the club to him with your heal pad. do this in a mirror and you will see you get fully turned.

SO cup the right, then push the left, and maintain spine angle.

That sounds like what I've been trying to do I started doing this in my bid to try and remove and hands in the swing and use the upper body / shoulders to turn.

and how does it look in a mirror?

Haha I really hate to say this, but I thought my backswing looks pretty good now :P Unfortunate that I haven't had the chance to record it lately and post it up for some feedback. Bad news is that even with a flat left wrist at the top, I am still getting the same distances. (So now I have to work on the downswing, which is many times harder cos it happens so fast!)

Hey shootin,

Done this. It does get me in a good top of backswing. I was just recently advised by the local pro to use a head cover under my left arm to stay connected and this coupled with the cup of the right wrist was getting a great position at the top. Was wondering how to get it without the headcover and this 'pushing' with the left hand does it.

So, you said the downswing was easier??? lol

J

Hello all:

Is it safe to say that the shorter the club, the shorter the backswing, therefor the earlier the wrist set?

I tend to use a qick wrist set with the wedges and progressively delay that wrist set as the clubs (and swing get longer). In fact, I am mindfull of the wrist set in my irons but with my woods I really don't think about it, the wrist set seems to occur with the momentum of the club as it is swinging back. The fact that I take the woods to near parallel seems to promote the wrist set also.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tim

Timmy, for ME thinking of this is too much, I use the same back swing for all clubs, and when necesarry i just use different lenghts. Now if it is in the rough, or hitting a flop, then it may be a different story

jman I'm with you on this. I've spent quite a lot of time and effort on the backswing and getting the right position at the top - but that hasn't done much for my swing to be honest! I guess because no matter how we got to the top previously, we would have in our own ways compensated during the downswing to get back to impact.

So if you asked me, the downswing is tonnes more difficult! :|

SImon,
Judging with the distances you have posted recently, I am about 99 percent sure you are still coming out of your spine angle. Learn how to cup the right wrist first, then swing to the top while maintianing spine angle, and you will have COIL that will unload AUTOMATICALLY

Thats definitely the way I feel it. As I turn back with say a PW I feel the wrists setting almost immediately. With a mid iron they start to set about knee height and with the longer clubs about waist height. But as Shootin says, I dont think about it. Its just the width of the arc determines about where they set. I know if my swing path is steep because I cant feel the wrists hinge by just past halfway and I feel disconnected and 'armsy'. Its sort of becoming a good checkpoint for me now. The swingsetter has helped me a lot here

Having said that, ive been experimenting with the feeling of really early wrist set on some approaches with say a 7i or 8i to try and get more height and bite due to the steeper approach. I think Tiger talked about this in his book. Feels unnatural right now but I can see this would be helpful

Hey Guys

Simon, I think I have to disagree with you about the backswing. I've found that the better the position I reach at the top the better the connection I have with the ball. Just as shootin said, I had trouble with coming out of my posture when I started. Was wondering why I was hitting fat/thin shots. I practiced for a full week, just making the shoulder turn, either with a club acorss my shoulders or just with my arms crossed in front of me. Then moved onto doing it in front of a mirror so when I turned back I could see the maintained spine angle. Then I introduced a club. The hands move back, the shoulders take them to the correct position and set the torque.

Try this Simon. When you do it and brace into your flexed right knee tell me what you feel across your back and down through your feet. Now put a ball down and hit it. Did you feel the same sensation as you did with the full shoulder turn? I bet not and it makes the world of difference. Hope it helps.

On the other topic, I think you do get the sensation of setting early with the shorter clubs because while your hands are travelling the same distance, the club head is much further away with the driver etc, so the set seems to take longer, or the feeling of the set takes longer. Its still the same set though, imo. You don't change your swing for a pw or a driver, or do you??? lol

Now, shootin, how about a few lines on the downswing??

J

Jman, what do you want to know? we can make another thread but I honestly believe there should not be too much thought into it. I believe hogan said he only had two thoughts he used on the down swing. When the downswing needs to be thought of a whole lot then that probably means you need to make compensations for a faulty set up or back swing.

Hey shootin,

Don't need to know anything specific to be honest. As per my reply to Simon I think once you get the good position at the top the only thing to remember from there is good tempo. Just thought you might have had something to add. You mentioned in another post that the downswing was simplier than your backswing. Maybe you meant there was no thought, its about the only way to make it simplier!!! LOL

What were the 2 things Hogan thought about? Do you think about anything?

J

My backswing rules, lol.

I hardly have one, lol..

I am not lying, I probably only swing back as half as much as everyone else here.

It seems that you have read how simple I have made my back swing, my down swing thought, hit the ball, seriously that is all I think about. If I am trying to hit a draw I consciously rotate my left forearm, but for a fade or straight shot I dont think of it.

according to ledbetter
"Hogan said repeatedly that, while playing, he thought of only two things regarding the downswing: He thought of starting the hips first, and of hitting the ball as hard as possible with the body, arms and hands, in that sequence. He felt that not much could go wrong for the golfer who produced the correct sequence of events during the swing"