Help with irons

I was needing to know if it is ok to press forward before begining my back swing. Also, should I focus on taking the club back with the left arm more. Any tips on how to hit better irons would be most helpful. I either hit them fat or thin. No where in between. Maybe my stance is to wide. Please help!

I struggled with my irons for a long time. I would hit a great shot then a bad shot. I had several problems, but after 2 lessons with a great pro my consistancy as increased 10 fold. Here are problems that my pro pointed out that he said are very common....for righties....

- Club head infront of the hands at impact. Lead with the left hand and attack the back-bottom of the ball (if looking at the ball, the bottom right section).
- Ball then turf contact. Divot should be infront of the ball.
- Flipping the club head, not releasing it. I was shown how to release with the left side of the body. VERY effective.
- Too wide of a stance. Keep your outsteps inside your shoulders.
- Not keeping enough weight on the left side with short to mid irons. Its amazing how you can hit the ball with a shorter backswing and more exceleration when you dont turn way back from the ball.
- OPEN your stance with short to mid irons. I hit the ball better, keeps a little more weight on my left side.

For me, the BIG change in my game was thinking about my LEFT side and FEELING what was happening with my swing.

Was a 8-9 handi. Last 3 rounds....75, 77, 73. Same course, but still 4-5 shots better, I think I hit at least 3 more GIRs. This all came together in about 5 weeks.

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What's in my bag....
Cleveland VP 2 Blade Putter
Ping Tour Wedges, 54 & 60
TaylorMade rac LT2, 4i thru PW
Tour Edge Exotics Iron-Wood 21* 3i - Aldila NV 90 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 18* 5 Wood - ProLaunch Blue 75 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 15* 3 Wood - Aldila NV 75 Stiff Shaft
Cleveland HiBore XL 9.5* - Fujikura Fit-On Red Stiff Shaft

Thanks alot. I'll give it a try.

That list is a lot of changes to make. I would start with stance. Thats an easy fix.

Then I would work on releasing with your left side and leading with the left hand. You will be suprised at how much better you hit the ball just with that. Focus on making a left knee movement to start your downswing. That should be a rotational move toward the target. Your right elbow should drop into the "slot." Let it fall, dont force it or you will come over the top. HOWEVER, the right elbow should be IN FRONT of the right hip, not behind or aside.

Only other thing I will say so I dont confuse the **** out of ya, you dont want to SLIDE your hips toward the target. You want to move with rotation. People talk about rotating within your "hip zone." That so important. It limits the movement and creates that coil to unleash.

__________________
What's in my bag....
Cleveland VP 2 Blade Putter
Ping Tour Wedges, 54 & 60
TaylorMade rac LT2, 4i thru PW
Tour Edge Exotics Iron-Wood 21* 3i - Aldila NV 90 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 18* 5 Wood - ProLaunch Blue 75 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 15* 3 Wood - Aldila NV 75 Stiff Shaft
Cleveland HiBore XL 9.5* - Fujikura Fit-On Red Stiff Shaft

would you mind sharing how this is done since it was so effective

please share on the left side release,thanks

Releasing with the left side....Let me try explaining this the best I can....

Backswing thoughts:
- your weight shifts in the direction of the club head
- set the wrists forming an "L" at the halfway point of the swing.
- transfer weight from your left instep to your right on the backswing
- TO START the downswing, transfer the weight from the right instep back to the left instep. For some people, their left OUTSTEP may come off the ground a bit at the top of the backswing. This should be REPLANTED to start the downswing. Imagine a right handed pitcher throwing a ball.

Downswing thoughts:
- The movement of the weight back to the left foot SHOULD pull the left knee back toward the target, which in turn will pull the left hip toward the target.
- The right elbow drops into the "slot" on its own. Dont force it. Let if fall from the top. Create seperation with your shoulders from your hips. Your hips should be MUCH MORE open to the target at this point.

Release with the left side:
- Checkpoint: Right elbow should be infront of the right hip. Left arm should be SLIGHTLY below parallel to the ground. The "L" should still be intact (no early release).
- From here, I aggressively accelerate my left hip BACK behind me, basically straightening my left leg. Keep it smooth however. You dont want to jerk and loose your spine angle.
- I DO NOT THINK ABOUT MY HANDS. I let the natural acceleration of my left side release the clubhead. Creates a inside-square-inside path.
- Accelerate THOUGH the ball, should take you to a full finish.

Thats as good as I can do it

Questions?

__________________
What's in my bag....
Cleveland VP 2 Blade Putter
Ping Tour Wedges, 54 & 60
TaylorMade rac LT2, 4i thru PW
Tour Edge Exotics Iron-Wood 21* 3i - Aldila NV 90 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 18* 5 Wood - ProLaunch Blue 75 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 15* 3 Wood - Aldila NV 75 Stiff Shaft
Cleveland HiBore XL 9.5* - Fujikura Fit-On Red Stiff Shaft

Thanks Randomhero for that narrative. I think there's not enough of such descriptions when it comes to teaching golf, so it was really nice to see a post like that where I could try to follow step by step and see if I might be missing out on something.

I'm curious when you said you don't think about your hands, just how specific do you mean it? I think I still try in a way to steer the clubhead into the ball (to ensure I hit it cleanly), but suspect a swingthought like that would cause deceleration into impact. But I can't imagine just swinging without "steering" :O

I have gone from fighting a slice to fighting a pull/hook, especially with my drives. I was using my hands too much and flipping the clubhead.

If I accelerate my left hip back from the halfway down spot, my arms naturally accelerate too. You will release the club naturally or as I was shown, release the club with the left side.

Now, I am not going to say my arms and hands don't help. Like you said, steer the club. But I don't think about it. Things happen naturally after time. You learn how to sync your swing with no thoughts. Where I think people get messed up is in what order to do things. Like, start the swing from the ground up, NOT from the top down.

If you want to think about your hands or use your hands to get a swing thought or feeling, try some swings with your left hand only. You will basically have to pull the bottom of your left hand toward the inside-back of the ball. That will achieve 2 things.....1, you will come from the inside. 2, you will lead with the left hand or hands when you have both hands on the club.

Watch the tour, esepcailly on the tee box when guys are waiting to hit (like a Vijay). They make swing with their left hand only, practicing left forearm rotation.

Left arm, left hip, left side. I think we all focus too much with the right hand (flipping) and the right side (coming over the top with the right shoulder).

__________________
What's in my bag....
Cleveland VP 2 Blade Putter
Ping Tour Wedges, 54 & 60
TaylorMade rac LT2, 4i thru PW
Tour Edge Exotics Iron-Wood 21* 3i - Aldila NV 90 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 18* 5 Wood - ProLaunch Blue 75 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 15* 3 Wood - Aldila NV 75 Stiff Shaft
Cleveland HiBore XL 9.5* - Fujikura Fit-On Red Stiff Shaft

Good posts RH. I like to feel the turn through my chest as I have quick hips but two other good transition 'feelings' to work on are 1. Pushing your weight down and through the left heel and 2. Bump the hip up and left (not directly at the target). This invokes a turn rather than a slide and gets the left leg straight and the right shoulder down plane. Remember these are things you can 'feel' and you can practice to see if these feelings work for you.

A TURN RATHER THAN A SLIDE...exactly. Get rotational! Great point!

Leadbetter talks a lot about turning though the chest if you have quick hips.

Its all a matter of trial and error. Once you find something that works and "feels good" you have to stick with it and work at it. Remember, some pros will tell you to "fire the right side," I find thinking about the left side makes me hit better shots!

When I was having lessons my pro taught me that in correct start of your downswing you need to push your hips in a straight line 45-degrees left of the target diagonally rather than laterally. He used the video to demonstrate how all top pros move their left hip from five to ten inches diagonally from their setup position to initiate the downswing.

To learn to make this hip movement he put a golf shaft (you could use an umbrella or even a chair) in the ground five inches to the front left of my left hip along this 45-degree line. On the downswing, he had me bump that umbrella with the left hip, keeping your head my head behind the ball. Again he stressed it was important to note how I felt that move (for me its the chest). This is a drill I still use every now and then. It would probably work well with gregs impact drill where you get up against a door/wall

Hi cosmos.
In my time as a golfer i have played against ( and been beaten by ) people with the most unorthodox swings that you can imagine. I would look at them standing on the 18th tee and think to myself " how can i be losing to you. your posture resembles somebody sitting on a invisible stool , you only have a 3/4 back swing and still outdrive me and you have never taken a lesson. this should not be possible". It took me years to work out why thes people would beat me, despite their unorthodox approach.
Now i have found their secret . They found what worked for them, they ingrained it and then they trusted it. Once on the course they had no thoughts of swing mechanics becuase they knew they had a swing that they could rely on.

hope this helps.......regards .Terry

i have since posted this as a seperate thread.

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A PERSON WITH GREAT DREAMS CAN ACHIEVE GREAT THINGS.....

That 45 degree move to the LEFT is what starts hip rotation. If you bump your left hip straight it does not promote the proper hip rotation.

I just stood up and tried that, I do like the feeling. Again, that move drops my right elbow down and in front of my right hip. My shoulders are barely unwinding, creating that nice hip/shoulder seperation. From there I can continue to accelerate my left hip BACK.

If you look at this move as in degrees, once you make contact with the umbrella/chair/shaft your hips are open 45 degrees and your shoulders are either closed or parallel to the target line.

There should be 2 critical times in the golf swing where there is at least 45 degrees difference in angle from your hips and shoulders. At the top your hips should be CLOSED no more than 45 degrees and your shoulders CLOSED to about 90 degrees (back to target). Half way down your hips are at about 45 degrees OPEN and your shoulders are parallel or slightly CLOSED to the target line.

Nice post Pnearn!

__________________
What's in my bag....
Cleveland VP 2 Blade Putter
Ping Tour Wedges, 54 & 60
TaylorMade rac LT2, 4i thru PW
Tour Edge Exotics Iron-Wood 21* 3i - Aldila NV 90 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 18* 5 Wood - ProLaunch Blue 75 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 15* 3 Wood - Aldila NV 75 Stiff Shaft
Cleveland HiBore XL 9.5* - Fujikura Fit-On Red Stiff Shaft

I will agree with TPG to a certain level. You need to find what works for YOU! However, there are several keys to making a consistant golf shot. Most of them happen at impact. If you can get the club head and club path SQUARE to your target at impact, you will hit it straight. If thats all you care about, then you dont need to work any harder. Get there and stop.

However... if you want to control trajectory, spin the ball, cut it, fly it low, whatever... you need to learn how to control your swing. Learning how to release the club a CONSISTENT WAY, learning how to start your downswing a CONSISTENT WAY, etc etc. That will lead to some cool things (drawing on command, fading on command, hitting it high, hitting it low, bombing it off the tee, keeping it low off the tee)

Thats where I agree with you TPG. I have seen some "horrible" swings that work for that individual. However, you can pick out cornerstone "moves" that lead to a "good" golf swing.

Its all about consistancy baby!

__________________
What's in my bag....
Cleveland VP 2 Blade Putter
Ping Tour Wedges, 54 & 60
TaylorMade rac LT2, 4i thru PW
Tour Edge Exotics Iron-Wood 21* 3i - Aldila NV 90 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 18* 5 Wood - ProLaunch Blue 75 Stiff Shaft
Ping G5 15* 3 Wood - Aldila NV 75 Stiff Shaft
Cleveland HiBore XL 9.5* - Fujikura Fit-On Red Stiff Shaft