top of one plane back swing question.

compare both of the pics, which are both a one plane swing....notice how tigers club is inline with his left arm and the other pros is pointing more towards the target.....is one of these ways better than the other or does it make no difference?

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Too mnay things going on here...different photo angles, and do you know what type of shot each was trying to play?

But basically you wat to know what is the correct wrist angle? Tiger's left is actually not straight, but uncupped to the right, and the other "Tripplet?", is straighter.

I prefer straighter.

Hi

I don't know if this is relevent to your original thred , but years ago i was given a tip from an old pro.

IF THE ANGLE OF THE CLUBFACE MIRRORS THE ANGLE OF YOUR LEFT ARM ( right handers ) AT THE TOP OF YOUR BACKSWING, YOUR CLUBFACE IS IN THE PERFECT POSITION.

cheers

The guy on the right is Chuck Quinton, owner of the One Plane Golf Swing site. He's got a really good DVD. He differs from Hardy quite a lot in his interpreation of the One Plane Swing. If you want to learn how to do the 1PS successfully I would like at what Chuck is doing/teaching rather than Tiger

Funny, I was about to say the same thing. As a member over at Chuck's site, I know Chuck's method is different from Hardy's.

The other thing too, is, that may not be the top of Tigers' swing. Tiger is a known late-wrist-setter. He still looks like he's not set in that picture.

Just my .02 You could probably make the same post on the OPGS.com forum, and get a better answer - and maybe straight from Chuck.

Would you please elaborate on the relative positions of the club face and the forearm as well as the angle of the wrist at your preferred top of swing position. It seems conventional wisdom says the club face should be parallel to the forearm, with a very slight cup in the wrist. This seems impossible with all but the weakest of grips.
I’ve really been helped a lot by your thoughts on wrist action and body turn and would really appreciate your thoughts on the top of swing position.

* Forarm and face are to be parallel.
* Depending on the strength of the grip, you will see a positive cup on the left hand for a stronger grip, and none to negative cup on the left hand for a weaker grip.
* Right hand as I advocate, will always remain cupped.
* Why I like (personally my swing) the positive cup on the left hand at the top is that this creates the "hammer down" action I love to feel into impact. I am left handed, and this is my strong hand, so I have a stronger grip there.
* The shape of my shot also has an affect on the position that a snapshot would see at my top. A negative cup in the left promotes the fade, becase I can hold on to the hammer's action better and this leaves the face slightly open. To draw a hard one, I like the normal strong grip, but really cup strong and release strong.
* The right cup stay consistant, and you would see the forarm/face in the same positions.

__________________
I'm a golfaholic, no question about that. Counseling wouldn't help me. They'd have to put me in prison, and then I'd talk the warden into building a hole or two and teach him how to play. ~Lee Trevino

Thanks Greg. If you would answer a follow up, please.

Assuming a reasonably strong grip at address, which naturally has a significant left hand cup, and then a club face parallel to the forearm and a significant left hand cup at the top of the swing, how does this translate into a flat left wrist at impact without getting a closed and delofted club face?

Because at setup you have aligned the face square. This returns you back to square. Delofting means you manipulated...rolled the forarms too far, or rolled the wrists shut into impact.

Setup with a strong grip, but be sure you are square in the blade to the targetline.

Yes, it would certainly return you back to square IF you had the same cup in your left wrist that you had at address with the shaft at the same angles as at address. Obviously, there’s not supposed to be a cup in the left wrist at impact. The body position and the left arm position has to be different between impact and address if the wrist is going to change from cupped at address to flat at impact, assuming you want to return the club to approximately it’s address position at impact. Imagine properly addressing the ball with a square club face, the correct shaft lean, and a cup in your left wrist with a moderately strong grip. How would you manipulate your body and wrist to shift yourself from address position directly to ideal impact position, without going through the backswing and downswing? Your description might help be better understand this point.

On a second point, frequently it’s said the left wrist should be flat and facing the target at impact. My thoughts are that with a moderately strong grip and a square club face at impact, the left wrist should be flat, but facing slightly up and slightly right of the target at impact, correct?

Thanks much for your help.

"...How would you manipulate your body and wrist to shift yourself from address position directly to ideal impact position..."

"...frequently it’s said the left wrist should be flat and facing the target at impact..."

The force of the swing will cause the left wrist to flaten. Setting up in a strong grip helps close the face square, so don't manipulate anything. Trying to imagine and "duplicate" impact from a standing state is just about impossible. My Impact drill does put you in an impact position, but for the sake of engraining the body's "fully rotated" position, not concerning so much the "squareness" of the face.

__________________
I'm a golfaholic, no question about that. Counseling wouldn't help me. They'd have to put me in prison, and then I'd talk the warden into building a hole or two and teach him how to play. ~Lee Trevino

Yes, of course, but this isn’t a question about my swing, rather a conceptual question. Maybe it’s too technical. I’m trying to reconcile, explain, describe, etc. the mechanisms in a good swing that allow for a cupped left wrist at address and then allow for the club to basically return to the same position (same shaft lean angle, same toe up/down angle, and the same square club face) but with a FLAT (non-cupped) wrist at impact.

Swatting is basically changing the cup angle in the wrists at impact, specifically by uncupping the right wrist and increasing the cup in the left wrist to close the club face. This results not only in club face rotation but also in a decrease in the shaft lean. It would seem that doing the opposite, that is uncupping the left wrist would also result in club face rotation and a change in shaft lean. It’s almost like reverse swatting.

I’m not doubting the validity of your (Greg’s) impact position or the RHD. On the contrary, I think these are strong concepts. I’m just trying to understand the dynamics of it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Does having a flat left wrist at impact as opposed to a slightly cupped one at address means that at impact your hands are even further ahead of the clubhead, therefore creating the effect of even delofting the head even more and getting more distance as a result?

It could. With a strong grip, though, this would really increase the shaft lean and deloft the club quite a bit, it would seem to me. This what I'm trying to get explained to me.

Are the hands suppose to return further in front of the club head at impact than at address (which would increase shaft lean and defloft the club to some degree) or do the hands return to their address relationship with the club head, in which case something else would have to have changed (relative) position, like the shoulders, or something in order to flatten the wrist.

To understand the effect, cup your wrist to the left and then the right at the setup position, you will see that you are opening and closing the club face, this is what will happen at impact if you do this in your backswing.

Regards
Brian