more on lag

is it possible to be on the downswing, have the arms at 7:30, have 90* of wrist cock, but have no lag?

Where is the face angle? Is it perpendicular or parallel to the target? My guess is Parallel = lag, perpendicular = no lag.

Sure.

Swing the arms really slowly, and have 0° wrist cock at the 7 o'clock position. Hell why not go a step further and go with a -10° wrist cock by really flipping the wrists, or breaking down the flat left wrist, or closing the clubface dramatically by over rotating the wrists, or ....

There are lots of solutions to your question, but I think they all result in quite a few bad things for the golf swing. Namely: loss of power and consistency (due to difficulty in repeatability).

Great question.
Next!

To reinforce a previous posting, the use of lag is the natural way we produce maximum acceleration through the wrists, whether hitting a nail with a hammer, cutting wood with an axe, throwing a ball, using a racket we naturally use the cocking and uncocking of our wrists to produce speed and acceleration.

The golf swing uses this fundamental action just the same but we tend to over complicate our thought processes. Robert Baker's videos at the attached URL has one "How to drive off the tee with style" he gives a really good demonstration of how the release of the lag in the wrists gives power to the shot.

http://www.golfinternationalmag.co.u...nstruction.htm

Regards
Brian

Shootin.
i have been reading your last couple of threads with great interest and some really great replies have been posted, but you have to remember that as far as novice golfers are concerned , most of them haven't the slightest clue what we have been talking about and i'm concerened that these threads will lead to confusion on their parts.
First , you have to be more specific about what YOU deem as lag.
you can have putting with lag, chipping with lag and the more conventional view that lag means having the clubhead behind the hands on the down swing prior to impact.
We can never in our threads asume that everybody will understand the subject , so we have to be as concise as possible.

cheers

__________________
the dog wags the tail....the tail dosn't wag the dog

I agree with you that some of this is a little deep, I realize some people have a hard time understanding some of this and part of it may be the explanation, and the other part is no visual demonstration. My purpose of this thread is to define lag. Now I will try my best to answer the question I posted.

If you take a club and hold it in front at address, now just cock the wrists straight up. from there move the club side to side by not moving anything but the wrist side to side while still maintaining their wrsit cock. notice the club moves in front of the hands and behind the hands.
now do the same address, cock the wrist, then turn only the shoulders to where your back is facing the target, leave the wrist cocked and move them side to side just like before. WHen the club is outside your hands you have no lag even though you have wrist cock

Thanks pal .
now even lesser golfers like me should have a better understanding

Hello All:

With respect to lag and it's effect in the golf swing, lag is really evident in all facets of the golf swing not just the angle retention of the wrists in the downswing. Think of it this way and take a look at some top players in slow motion and you may be able to see this.

1) Most good players have some type of swing trigger versus the higher handicaps method of starting the swing from a dead ( I mean dead as a door nail) start. The swing trigger establishes a reflexive motion and the smooth backswing action follows that trigger. In effect, the backswing is lagging slightly behind the swing trigger. When you watch a top players slow motion swing, pay attention to the slight movement (knees or slight hand press toward target...etc) before the club head begins to move away from the target. Just about every good player has this subtle but discernable move. High handicaps often have no notion of this trigger move and it is a big problem. They often jerk the club back with the hands alone and recovery from this start is nearly impossible. The pros method using the swing trigger prepares the entire body for the swing.

2) The transition begins with the legs driving the knees toward the target before the backswing is fully completed in a good players swing. In effect the downswing is lagging slightly behind the transitional move targetward. This creates the essential coil and strong rotary power of the swing. Some call it the x factor but it is simply moving the hips forward in the downswing with the shoulders lagging behind. This torso lag should not be released until impact. The transitional motion if performed correctly will naturally aid in keeping the wrist angle from opening too quickly. Poor players do not have the correct notion of the lag created between the hips and shoulders. They generally will hit from the top of the backswing with the shoulders, leave the hips in a static position, loose all power, cast and swat.

In summary, the correct lagging actions help create tension or stretching of the muscles required for the golf swing. This type of tension is necessary and should not be confused with strangling the grip, clenching the teeth or feeling like a statue. The swing builds up power by correct use of motion and when done properly allows a player to hit the ball powerfuuly with what appears to be little effort.

Ok , so have you all worked out who has the largest penis?
my god guys, what a load of self promoting shite.
If you have something to offer your fellow golfer , then offer it to them, don't wrap it up in a load of " listen to me cos i speak more bullshit "

what a load of arbitrary ****.

that was not the intention, my appoligies if it cam acrss that way. I was trying to get people to think outside the box

I thought I did offer something? The debate is on "Lag" in the Golf Swing, I gave my opinion of what it is and what it does with a link to a very good video that shows us the way it works.

Sorry if you think this is some kind of Pi**ing contest, I just consider it a debate! Maybe you have some sensible ideas on the subject?

Regards
Brian

Hello All:

First of all I want to express my thanks to all of the folks involved with GTO for making this one of the most interesting web sites on the great game of golf. Anyone who witnessed the recent OPEN Championship could rightfully attest that this is the greatest of all games in sport and the players who represent golf are for the most part true gentlemen and positive role models.

This site offers many (sometimes too many) hours of enjoyable reading and writing about the many facets of golf. Be it the latest equipment, training aids, swing thoughts etc...this is an honest forum of ideas and opinons, and very insightful.

This being said, I think the post entered in this string by TPG1965 was perhaps the most ridiculous and unintelligent response I have seen on this site to date. The spirit of his reply was not in keeping with my positive impression of GTO and the game of golf overall. I found his words offensive and combative.

Golf is not an easy skill to master like it or not. By understanding the fundamentals of the swing and how some very proven methods work in relation to controlling ball flight, a player can become more consistent and practice in a way that will help them to improve. This can very well make the game more enjoyable and most important keep folks playing for many years.

In my opinion, no one on this site is trying to do anything but help their fellow golfer improve. By way of opening eyes and minds to some fresh perspectives as well as some profound experience, together we strive to promote the game that truly inspires us.

Over the years, I've had the great opportunity to travel and play golf in Ireland, Scotland and England. In addition to the breathtaking courses and great history of the game, I truly found the people in these areas to be "lovely" as they say over the pond. I had the great fortune to play many rounds with the locals and after we would retreat to the pubs for a pint or two and chatter on about our rounds and generally have a wonderfull time. This commaradare and goodwill is what the game of golf offers us as few other pastimes can. I did not know it at the time, but I was also very fortunate not to have met Mr. TPG1965 on my visits. Somehow I think he would have lessened the positive memories I hold of those golfing trips.

To all of those with a better attitude than Mr. TPG1965, I thank you for sharing your ideas and the help they offer me. Keep up the good work.

Tim

Good comment Tim.

You are spot on, this individual delights in winding people up and spoiling some most interesting and sensible debates. Lets hope he can preferably join in the spirit of the board with some intelligent comments or just go away and keep his immature attitude to himself.

Regards
Brian

There are trolls on every board on the internet. tgp1965 is a perfect example.

Back to lag. I appreciate Timothy's post, a lot of goo info there. But what is the most important part of the lag equation with which to begin working. My instructor pointed out the lack of lag in my swing in my last lesson. He is not much of a mechanics teacher so he just showed me some videos of the club head position in relation to the hands at impact and basically told me to get in more of that position. He said my swing looked good but I was robbing myself of a lot of distance because of no lag.

After trying just to feel the lag with no success my first mechanical correction was just to get more right hand-wrist cupped (more angle between back of right hand and forearm, good ol' right hand drill stuff) position at address and tried to maintain that position through impact. That helped a lot. Could we say that would be a good starting point for anyone. Seems it is the part of lag that gives more immediate results. It is very hard to think of more than one correction at a time and that is what makes it hard for some to understand and execute these more detailed instructions.

Hi,

As I stated previously the easiest way to understand the use of lag in the golf swing is to imagine the ball is a large nail and your golf club a large hammer, take a swing and try to drive the nail into an imaginary piece of wood as hard as possible. You will naturally create lag and remove it to gain maximum acceleration. Try it!

Regards
Brian