Posture, Spine Angle, Knee Flex and the Downswing

In the spirit of these new 'lets discuss' threads I thought i'd start one I was thinking about this last night after my knee flex post in the OTT thread (its so hot at night in the UK right now that sleeping is an issue for me )

We hear a lot about good players saying 'you dont think about anything on the downswing - it just happens' and the same players also saying 'keep the spine angle'. Well I think thats very much related but its my contention a lot of people key in on the wrong areas in trying to keep the spine angle and they dont understand why doing so leads to a very simplified backswing

Here's my theories through hours and hours and practice and feelings. Would like peoples thoughts

Clearly keeping spine angle is vital. We've all heard it. But when I started trying to do this I focused on the wrong areas. Just saying dont let the flex in the right knee go is simple enough but most players dont have nearly enough flex in their right knees when they start the BS nor when they finish it

If you dont set up with real flex in the right knee it is IMHO almost impossible to keep that very small amount of flex as you turn back. Theres simply not enough flex there to keep. All great players actually increase their knee flex on the BS, Woods and Hogan being two prime examples

There are two ways to mimic this. Either setup with really exaggerated knee flex or as you swing back actually try and push that right knee forward towards your feet. Knee flex = Spine angle. Keep the knee flex, you keep the spine angle

What this also does is it gives you real coil. The more the right knee is flexed, the more coil you will get as you turn back into it. If (like I used to) your knees arent flexed nearly enough you'll never feel real coil at the top. The real stretch in your right buttocks and top of the right leg.

However its this stretch that makes the downswing so simple. Because even if you make a free swing of your arms from the top, the hips will move faster. They have to because they are so taught, like the spring analogy. They will sping back quickly the moment you change direction, this will shallow the swing plane. Even if you swing with your arms you will come less OTT with this since your body has to respond to that action. This is why players say the downswing just happens, because you can feel like all you need to do is bump the hips a touch to unleash that coil and then swing your arms hard

I would contend that most higher handicap players never get that coil at the top because they lose their spine angles because they never flexed their right knee enough either at setup or during the BS

As an example look at this pic of Woods

http://picsrv.tigerwoods.com/?fif=/t...0,0,0&cvt=jpeg

Just look at how much flex he has in his right knee.By this point most high handicappers have no flex at all and can only come OTT because their is no power to get their hips moving

Appreciate your thoughts ...

good picture,
tiger is sitting on the stool just like hogan says to do

Shooting

Youre a big one for spine angle. Do you setup with a lot of knee flex or actively increase your flex in the BS to increase the spine angle?

agree with what you're saying Pnearn.

Also, I've found that to keep the right leg stable on the backswing, I lean the right knee in towards the ball a little at address - this helps me a lot and it also stops me overswinging.

Hi Pnearn,

I have found the biggest destroyer of retaining the spine angle is failing to let the shoulders rotate around the spine angle in the downswing and followthrough. It's not easy to explain but I mean the way the right shoulder stays down and back during the downswing and especially at contact and follow through.

When this is not achieved it makes you lift both shoulders through the shot which straightens the back upright throwing the club across the body as opposed to down the target line. It also encourages you to loose knee flex.

I hope I have made this clear enough?

Regards
Brian

Thanks panman. Another key to keep the knee stable is not too have too wide a stance. At the range today I saw over 50% of those who were struggling had way too wide a stance. Will lead to a sway and make it very very hard to get the weight back on to the left side in the downswing

http://www.joy-tech.com.tw/~tate/GOL.../90.5.ph.1.gif

I would say I set up with medium but I do not let my knee flex increase in the back swing nor would I want to. some players do it but I would just rather the knee stay about the same. If the knee flex increases or decreses there is up and down movement, I am not a fan of that, but then there are very good instructors who like to see the knee flex decrease a little at the top. My objective is to set up in a good position, keep spine angle, and by doing that I dont have to think about anything lower then the waiste during the swing. certain things in the golf swing are a matter of preference, this is one of those areas.

yes sir, and also make it hard for hip turn because like you say they will slide, instead of turn

I just started pointing my right knee in which in turn flexs my knees more,
I have to do more investigating with the flex, but it did help me.