Importance of a full shoulder turn

My swing and ball striking have gotten more consistent over the summer, but sometimes I find myself going back to the old hit 'em off the toe with the ugliest shank-looking slice imaginable. I've learned (finally---I've a thick skull) that when I start that silliness to become conscious of making a full shoulder turn.

I think that what happens when I start the off-the-toe striking is that I'm trying to swing forward too soon (too conscious about the product than the process) and fail to get the club in a proper position on the backswing. Hence, the clubhead comes insanely outside in because of an over-the-top swing.

My questions: What is the importance of a full shoulder turn, especially in relation to ball striking?

Also, should one's backswing stop when one's shoulder turn stops? In other words, does the amount of one's shoulder turn determine the length of one's backswing?

Thanks,
Bill

Not really. Shoulders should rotate fully back (it's ain't much...90 degrees) but regulate the "length" of the shot (1/2, 3/4, full...) with the hight of your arms. Then there is always the amount of wrist cock that can be a factor, but we'll save that one.

So full shoulder turn always on a normal swing (excluding chipping).

One thing I was working on today, just short pitches 30-40 yds. I found that I was able to control these better, thinking of my left shoulder and left arm staying very connected. Then turning this connection on the back swing and starting the down swing by clearing this left arm-shoulder connection kind of up and back 1st. By doing this, I felt as if the right side was able to come through naturally. Hope I explained this well.

So what is it about concentrating upon a full shoulder turn that "cures" my off-the-toe misadventures? Does it better get the club coming from the inside?

Bill

Several good points in this thread, Bill.
I wouldn't disagree with anything said.
The school I subscribe to breaks the
backswing down into takeaway and the
backswing.
It's the old "back and up" idea that
ruled for many years.
In it, you are well near your 90 degrees
by the time the shaft reaches parallel.
That's the finish of the takeaway.
At that point, the upper body starts
its torque.
The correct takeaway has put you into
position to initiate the power loading
sequence, and that position is always
the same: back facing target.
Get jacked for a few extra yards and
turn the shoulders "just a few more
degrees" with this method and you
better know that by doing this you just
took the club more to the inside, and
you hopefully have an idea of how to deal
with it.
I know this probably seems foreign to
you, Bill. You asked if the swing stops
at the conclusion of the shoulder turn.
I'm saying the backswing begins at
the conclusion of the shoulder turn.
Don't throw me out...watch the Tiger
slo mo video.

A lesson in golf that I'm starting to learn is that things are not what they seem to be.

I'm beginning to think that the reason for my off-the-toe shots are not so much the shoulder turn but dropping the club a bit on the forward swing before I turn my shoulders. The problem shots, I think, could be caused by an anxiousness to "hit" instead of allowing the club to drop to the inside. Does this make sense, and is this a common problem?

Bill

Broadus, I think you are onto something. To get a better feel for what I was describing above, try split gripping the club i.e. right hand 3-4 inches below the left. No make your regular backswing. From this position, you will notice that if you try and hit the ball with the right hand before clearing the left side, the left wrist has to break down at the point of contact. However, if you start the downswing by clearing the left side, you will find the right arm naturally moves into a position from which you can fire through the ball. The feeling I get from clearing the left side is to feel the hip turn and left shoulder-arm connection pull up and back almost simultaneously. In reality, the hips lead. Hope this helps Mike.
BTW if you time this correctly, the swing should feel effortless. If it doesn't, then you are trying to hit the ball with the right arm before clearing the left side. It takes time, so be patient.

Guys,

Not sure this is the same thing here But I find that the 2nd half of the shoulder turn is really important to a strait shot. I mean not striking the ball and stopping but continuing the follow-through. I find I push the ball out to the right ( Not a Slice) when I fail to follow through well.

Barry

When the body remains in control
of the tempo, the arms will not initiate
the downswing, and why should they?
The handle cracks the whip, not the other
way around. If you watch the slow motion
Nike Tiger Woods video, it's plain from that
full position at the top he gets to on the
big swing that his hands just naturally follow
the same path they took to get him there,
only in the reverse direction.
That is, the first move Tiger's hands make
on the way down are (basically) to the rear.
They are following the arc of the swing
back down into the hitting zone.