Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

I believe this is THE single most important thing to learn as a golfer yet it also seems to be impossible to teach.
95% of golfers swing over the top from the outside in, I'm one of them, and though I've been playing to 11 hc recently, I feel as if I've reached the top of my game unless I sort my swing plane out.
I've lost count of the Golf Channel shows I've taped and rewatched dealing with this subject, the books and articles and lessons and questions I've posted on here, the teaching aids I've bought . . . but still I can't swing from the inside if there's a ball there (no problem without a ball)
I've been swinging a momentus swing trainer everyday for the last couple of weeks, getting my right elbow back to my hip asap and swinging from the inside, but I go on the range and the ball will NEVER draw or hook to show me that something is happening.

Sad story indeed. And I agree that an in-out path is preferred...for some shots its still good to have the out-in path. The trick is being able to do both.

Here is how I regulate the path on demand. And hopefully saying it yet another way might help trigger an "ahhh" moment.

* My wrists/hands/shoulders/feet alignment have NOTHING to do with path. Setup for me, is identical for in-out or out-in.

* The only thing that changes my path is the relationship of my arms to my chest.

* Pull the arms INTO your chest slightly in the Back swing and push them out slightly = draw (in-out path)

* Push the arms OUTWARDS from your chest slightly in the back swing and pull them inwards = fade (out-in path)

And this is slightly. Excessive adjustments will cause problems. Relatively small changes sometimes feel like an enormous change. So what feels radical might not be enough, so keep going and fight that thought that "There is no way!" feeling. But once you start to see results in the right direction, this feeling will be easier to repeat, and learn just how much is enough.

The idea of just changing the arm path is that a square face at impact is SOOOOO much easier to accomplish if the action of the hands/wrists releasing from their cocked position is done the same way every time. Changing them is very difficult because they are susceptible to error in slight adjustments (small muscles).

The arms are bigger, stronger and able to manage to maintain better control during the swing. So you will be better at making those types of path changes overall.

Doing setup changes to work the ball (opening the stance, rolling the club open/closed) have a temporary solution. Anything you do during setup is quickly countered back in your normal subconscious. (I won't go into that detail, just know that your will always tend to return back to a "normal" state whenever possible...)

So, making the change "during" the swing itself will be better because there it is, right there in the forefront of your head...nothing subconscious about it. You are doing it now, and need to complete the move to accomplish the result. "Pull in while going back, and push out into impact = draw!"

Hope this helps.

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I'm a golfaholic, no question about that. Counseling wouldn't help me. They'd have to put me in prison, and then I'd talk the warden into building a hole or two and teach him how to play. ~Lee Trevino

Hi Mariner,

This really is getting too you.

I think its difficult to help with these things from a distance, it is so easier if you are with the person and long winded explanations in text can be difficult to follow. let me try a fairly simple routine for you to start with and see if it helps you:

At address imagine a straight line that is drawn from the target passing through the ball and continuing along behind you.

Make the initial backswing takeaway until the club is horizontal, pointing along the line of your feet with the butt end towards the target.

Now continue with the backswing but imagine you have a laser light fixed in the butt end of the grip handle. Allow the light to keep following along the line while the club moves all the way to the top.

As you make your downswing keep the light on the line all the way back until you reach the release position where the butt end is pointing at the target again.

Now release the club to impact. If you consciously keep the imaginary light on the target to ball line the club head will remain behind your hands and you will come down on the inside.

Just try it at home or on the range and get the feeling of directing the butt end of the club.

I really hope this helps you, it did me once.

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Best Regards
Brian

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Funny o'l game!

Hey Mariner:

Are you hitting blocks or true cut slices as your predominant ball flight? As an 11 you obviously have some good fundemental skills and most likely decent club head speed and ball compression. Is it cut slices with the longer clubs and pulls with the short irons? If so then you probably are coming OT.

To break the OT problem, you may want to go to the range and force yorself to hit balls to the right of your targe line. Make sure your set-up alignment is square but purposely hit balls that start right of your target line, That is the key. Assuming a fairly square club face angle at impact, the only way to start the ball right of target is to swing from the inside. Don't worry if the ball does not draw back initially, you just want to get the feel of coming from the inside and to break the old habit. You may be surprised that the ball may end up going fairly straight. You must, of course, start your downswing with the correct sequence starting with the feet. Most OT swings are a result of starting the downswing with the upper body soley or overusing it and outracing the pivot and shift to the left side with the lower body.

you answered yourself pretty much mariner (but still I can't swing from the inside if there's a ball there (no problem without a ball)
that is one of the biggest problems with people struggling with there swings practise swings are great as soon as they put a ball the all goes wrong. you have to remember your not hitting the ball your swinging thru it, you shouldn't be thinking of the ball at all. try this tee up 10 ball in a row about 4 inches apart, get set up just out side the first ball and make 6 or so perfect practise swings then without stopping step up swing thru the first ball keep going right down the line with all 10 balls don't worry about where there going just work on the feeling of swing thru the ball with a nice balanced finish. try it you ll like the feeling believe me

to hit the ball square I have been placing the ball between 2 tees slightly wider than the club head, the idea is that I hit the ball with normal swing speed without hitting the tees, sound easy? it is not. the other practise for out to in or in to out swing is to have an old shaft on the ground to left or right(deppending on out to in or in to out) next to the ball (an inch wider than club head) and hit the ball! you will soon know if your your swing plane is incorrect! make sure you dont break your club, maybe a string would be a cheaper option.

It's changing your swing habits that is so hard. At a 11 hc your OTT move has propably been etched quite deep in your swing. You've just got to keep trying hard to break the habit. When I'm changing my swing somehow, (which I'm doing alot at the moment) I take practice swings at home in front of the mirror to etch those new moves in my swing. I take small breaks from what I'm doing and go and make a few practice swings. Just focus hard on what your working on on each swing.

When you go to the range to hit some balls, if it still doesnt work out, try this: take one bucket of balls. With this bucket, you're not going to make any practice swings. Focus hard on not coming OTT on every swing. This might help you remove that barrier between practice swings and the swing with a ball infront of you - if only for a couple of shots. That might be enough of the "ahh" moment to stop you coming OTT.

my take on it, bad set up and bad pivot
if you set up wrong without balance your body will seek to find balance and you may come up out of your spine angle to find balance, once you come up out of spine angle then you have no rooms for the right elbow and hands to clear so you must come OTT

bad pivot, once again if you pivot wrong, loose your tushline then you will come out of your spine angle, no room again for hands and elbow, so around the hip they must go

learn to set up better, learn to pivot better on the backswing and you would be able to fix that problem pretty easy

One technique that Leadbetter uses to fix swing flaws is to have you accentuate the error and then develop a "feel" for what you have to do to correct it; insodoing you develop a sense of feel for what is right and what is wrong. So instead of trying to minimize coming over the top exaggerate it, and then work on the remedy - it should give you two distinct feelings of what you are doing and what you ought to be doing.

Good luck james

Mariner,

I think I have the most simple and only in my opinion the easiest way to cure this and every slicers swing, it takes about six weeks and 6/10 sessions at the range to start to get it engrained.

Find an old shoe box or length of wood and put it on the ground behind your ball pointing at the target about 2 inches outside your ball, now just swing without trying to do anything only hit the ball, I will bet one weeks wages after 20 balls you will start to draw the ball or smash the box/wood to pieces.

It's really as simple as that, the problem start when you only try it for a couple of sessions and think you've cracked it, you must do it for at least 6weeks and maybe a few more.


Good Luck


Ian.

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Once you learn the swing, your next step is mastering golf psychology................

Hi Mariner,

Give these two things a try,

1) Draw back your back foot 10 to 15 inches and try to hit some ball in this position, you'll see you have got to start the downswing only with your lower body ( feet, legs and hips ) if not you can fall forwards. Note that the club is coming down in a more inner path and your back shoulder isn't leading the motion anymore and staying in his place.
This is the feeling of a proper downswing, in my oppinion.

2) ''Let your right arm and right hand sleep in the downswing'' ( for right handed players ). Give your left arm and left hand the leading action ( force and rotate ).

Hope these help you.

Good luck.

Toni.

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To feel fear is also beautiful. -Curro Romero- (bullfighter)

Great tip Ian .. a weeks wages from you and the lad will be rich

I do the same thing sometimes but use a head cover as its handy.. same idea.. I find as a tall guy that if I push the club inside the line with my left hand then its far easier to rotate your shoulders and get the club in to out (swing to right field)

Have a look at this thread

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/10514505-post27.html (Outside in swing path)

And try getting the club working inside a little more keeping the clubhead outside the hands. This may work for you and it may not but it will keep your left arm tight in to the chest and allow you to then rotate in to out. Do this with the head cover and you'll soon be hitting draws

This problem has been my downfall over the last 10 years, I had lessons, read books and watched endless dvds without any success. But by chance I tried something the other day that has made a huge difference to my game. Before I was guilty of uncocking my hands too early in the downswing which inturn had my shoulders moving out and producing the out to in. First thing I do is to try and relax, trying to smash the coating of the ball is counter productive and I hit it probably further with a nice relaxed tempo. I then try and keep my wrists cocked as long as possible (they will uncock without any extra effort) making sure the hands move down and not out which helps keep the club coming from behind the hands. It will feel very odd at first but I have been working on this for about a week and although I sometimes lapse into my old ways but yesterday I played 2 rounds making sure I tried to do what Ive just (tried to) explained, it was the best ball striking Ive ever had, not much effort, nice long straight irons, accurate short irons, I shot 84 and 85 and this is something I have never done, shooting 2 goods rounds consecutively. I manage 17 pars and managed to miss loads of birdie putts. Ive never been so confident about my game as I am at the moment. I will keep working on it and hopefully my handicap will come tumbling down.

Good luck

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Leepy

Driver: Taylormade R7 9.5 stiff
4+ wood: Callaway steelhead 3
Rescue club: Taylormade
Irons: Mizuno MP-32 stiff shaft
PW: Cleveland 900 series
SW: Cleveland 900 series
LW: Cleveland CG10
Putter: Odyssey 2ball steel insert blade
Ball: Callaway HX Tour Black

I'm going to repeat a response I wrote on a previous thread. Again, I saw this on the golf channel and I think it is brillant.
1) Take a piece of rope about 50 inches
2) Attach on end to a a tree or some vertical fixture
3) Attach the other end to your right thumb (you can use some type of ring)
4) Take your stance so the rope is taut with a club (any club)
5) Swing back maintaing the tautness of the rope ( but do not pull on it )
6) NOW the KEY - on the downswing maintain the tautness of rope. You will notice that to do this the hand and arms come close to the chest. (IF YOU LOSE THE TAUTNESS AT THIS POINT YOUR HANDS HAVE MOVED FOWARD TOWARDS THE TARGET LINE HENCE CREATING AN OUT TO IN SWING)
7) if you maintain the tautness of the rope, You have now swung on the correct plane.

Hey Mariner,

All these posts are suggesting the same thing, Swing the club on the inside using this or that method.

I will leave it up to you to decide how you can best use all this material and just finally reiterate that it is the butt end of the club that holds the key, it should point along the ball to target line throughout the whole swing except for the short time through takeaway and impact where it points at your belt buckle.

Don't despair the answer is there somewhere.