closed clubface during backswaing

BrianW · #16 (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 05:04 PM

Cmays

LOL.

Come on, you ain't going to earn much by telling them to put a bit of tape on their hand, do what you want in the swing but just return the tape to the same place at impact. Now go away and play to 70.

I just don't know what to say, you are creasing me up here

I like you but you are awful!

jambalaya · #17 (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmays

Jeff:

You swing around the fix axis in the backswing to the inside, but you pitch the club back down into impact which is the reason you drop the right elbow in the slot, otherwise you have a over the top action. Find a mirror and you will understand.

Guys in the Ladies lounge I posted the pump drill so you can see the over the top move. Very short video.

Jam:

Go back and read about the fat pad that is running from the little finger to the wrist, left hand for a right handed golfer. If it is down when you grip the club no matter what you do in the backswing you must return it back down before impact.

If you grip it and it faces out towards the left side versus being down then before impact you return it back to the side no matter what you do in the backswing. Find a mirror and grab a club.

If I put you in my old truck that I like to drive and told you to align the wheels of the truck and the steering wheel up to where you travel down a straight line and when you found that point on the top of the steering wheel we place a piece of tape and as long as you kept the tape at the top you travel straight.

Turn the tape to the left and the truck will go to the left. Turn the tape to the right and the truck goes to the right.

Once you have grip the club, no matter what grip you take, from weak to strong that is your center reference with the left hand and on the downswing you turn the hands back around too far to the left the ball will go to the left from a close clubface.

Turn the left hand back more to the right on the way down and you have maintained a open clubface and the ball goes to the right.

Turn the the left hand more to the left on the way down and you have closed the clubface and the ball goes to the left.

At address if you have a one knuckle grip, the left wrist is flat andything else you start seeing a cup in the back of the wrist and the stronger the grip the larger the cup. You do not change those positions when you address the ball and you return them back to the same position before impact. That's All. Take any grip, place a piece of tape on the left hand and return the tape to the same position before impact.

Brian:

Backswing position does not matter, wish I could tell you on paper, but it is something that has to be shown. You can swing the club back in little circles on the way back and hit the ball square each and everytime or big circles or too much to the inside or outside, it does not matter.

Why?

It is the use of the clubface angle at impact. Square is square no matter how you arrive at it.

My folks are in the 70's in less than a year no matter if they start out in the 100's or 80's.

Why?

They are not trying to create this and that angle in the backswing or downswing, they go with the flow.

When you can undo all the false **** that is out there, you can get down to swinging the club the easy way and let it do the work for you, but what most are doing is working the club.

Glad folks do not understand and get off their butts, it keeps the cash flow coming in.

I understand your explanation about the fat pad and but I still have no idea what you mean by the left hand knuckles facing the sky. It was said like it was something significant but I guess I have to go on wondering what you meant. If the fat pad between your wrist and pinky is facing the ground your knuckles are facing side ways.

Of course we have to get the hands back to our address position just before impact. That is the trick. But how does one do it consistently? That is where some kind of method comes in. I am a feel golfer but I still have to have some approach to a backswing that will make it as easy as possible to get those hands back consistently.

So backswing position does matter but I don't want to have to think about it all the time, I want it to just happen because I take the corrrect approach to set up and the start of the backswing. One could swing the club around in little circles but does one really want to take that approach? Definitely not.

Thanks for trying but so far I am not getting anything from you I can actually put into practice.

jambalaya · #18 (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmays

Jam:

You go to the golf bag and grab any club, form a 3 knuckle grip with the club at waist high, where are the hand, not the finger knuckles facing?

Up towards the sky or down towards the ground?

Now return them back to impact in the same position.

The example of the circles in which I do for demostation is to show how a person can be in control of the club versus the club controlling the person.

Am I the only one that is teaching a Simple Swing? Go back a few post (1st page) and watch the video from Youtube. Poor Brent, it took him 20 years to catch on and then he flipped the light switch On.

If I take a strong grip as you suggest I would say my middle knuckle is pointing at about a 45 degree angle up towards the sky. If I take a weak grip it is almost pointing horizontal. I am going to search for the simple swing you are talking about. If it truly simple and people are being taught the method, it will be on the internet somewhere unless all students are sworn to secrecy and actually keep the pledge. Of course you could save me the trouble if you would explain the method to us all.

shootin4par · #19 (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmays

Jeff:

You swing around the fix axis in the backswing to the inside, but you pitch the club back down into impact which is the reason you drop the right elbow in the slot, otherwise you have a over the top action. Find a mirror and you will understand.

Guys in the Ladies lounge I posted the pump drill so you can see the over the top move. Very short video.

Jam:

Go back and read about the fat pad that is running from the little finger to the wrist, left hand for a right handed golfer. If it is down when you grip the club no matter what you do in the backswing you must return it back down before impact.

If you grip it and it faces out towards the left side versus being down then before impact you return it back to the side no matter what you do in the backswing. Find a mirror and grab a club.

If I put you in my old truck that I like to drive and told you to align the wheels of the truck and the steering wheel up to where you travel down a straight line and when you found that point on the top of the steering wheel we place a piece of tape and as long as you kept the tape at the top you travel straight.

Turn the tape to the left and the truck will go to the left. Turn the tape to the right and the truck goes to the right.

Once you have grip the club, no matter what grip you take, from weak to strong that is your center reference with the left hand and on the downswing you turn the hands back around too far to the left the ball will go to the left from a close clubface.

Turn the left hand back more to the right on the way down and you have maintained a open clubface and the ball goes to the right.

Turn the the left hand more to the left on the way down and you have closed the clubface and the ball goes to the left.

At address if you have a one knuckle grip, the left wrist is flat andything else you start seeing a cup in the back of the wrist and the stronger the grip the larger the cup. You do not change those positions when you address the ball and you return them back to the same position before impact. That's All. Take any grip, place a piece of tape on the left hand and return the tape to the same position before impact.

Brian:

Backswing position does not matter, wish I could tell you on paper, but it is something that has to be shown. You can swing the club back in little circles on the way back and hit the ball square each and everytime or big circles or too much to the inside or outside, it does not matter.

Why?

It is the use of the clubface angle at impact. Square is square no matter how you arrive at it.

My folks are in the 70's in less than a year no matter if they start out in the 100's or 80's.

Why?

They are not trying to create this and that angle in the backswing or downswing, they go with the flow.

When you can undo all the false **** that is out there, you can get down to swinging the club the easy way and let it do the work for you, but what most are doing is working the club.

Glad folks do not understand and get off their butts, it keeps the cash flow coming in.

I got a question for you Mr. Mays, since I know you have more experience then I do
you ever have house guests over and you offer them meat and potatos, but they choose chips and soda, and leave wondering why they are still hungry?

shootin4par · #20 (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 05:38 AM

amen preacher mays, amen.
can I get a hallelujah
hallelujah
can I get a preach on brother man
preach on brother man
the sick were not healed by the preacher mans lack of faith or knowldge
they remained unhealed by their skepticism and inablity to see the light for the light was so bright it blinded them.
I can see Preacher mays,
I can seee

BrianW · #21 (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 09:28 AM

Jeez!!!!!!

And I only thought it was a game, I didn't consider the food

Now lets get down to it here.

If I swing a french stick at an onion (with some tape on my hand of course) should I keep my fork pointing to the sky

Will my loaf return square to an apple if . No, wait a minute this wont work will it? I will never talk my wife into serving us dressed that way.

BrianW · #22 (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 12:20 PM

Oh! did I say fork, I meant Spoon (That is a type of golf club isn't it)

jambalaya · #23 (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 01:30 PM

This is kinda related to the topic but I won't make any food analogies.

I am constantly taking a club and doing slow motion swings trying out different things on set up and initial take away which I think is key. As I related earlier I noticed my club head was very closed when at the half way point back and in this or another thread remarked the tendency to reverse pivot when I turn the shoulder under in rotating back. Well last night I exaggerated the tilt of the spine back at set up and of course this opened my club head to the point it was practically pointing straight up at the half way point back. I also noticed that the tendency to reverse pivot was greatly reduced and one can kind of lock the spine in position better.

I know this is not the complete answer but can one tilt back too much? I now realize I had no tilt back usually which can't be good.

Just an update. On the thread I started regarding help with my left shoulder, Jeff Mann posted an excellent link that answers my question quite thoroughly. Ya'll might want to listen to instructors thoughts.

Jeff Mann · #24 (**permalink**) 02-14-2007, 04:36 PM

Jambalaya

You bring up an important point. A closed clubface during the takeaway can be due a reverse pivot, even if the hands are neutral. The closed clubface is due to the fact that the upper spine becomes tilted to the left with a neutral clubshaft position (as Leslie King also demonstrates is his example of reverse pivoting).

That "backswing pivot" swing video demonstrates the importance of having the spine pre-tilted to the right at address, so that one can pivot properly during the backswing. When one pivots properly, the spine angle becomes tilted even more to the right during the backswing.

Of course, don't over-tilt the spine at address. One needs to keep in good balance, but with a sense that there is more slightly weight on the right foot (eg. 60:40) at address.

Jeff.

mattteachingpro · #25 (**permalink**) 02-22-2007, 11:21 AM

in my view the golf swing is a chain reaction, i would advise you check your clubface position after the takeaway - swing back to where the club has reached parrallel to the ground (waist high) check to see if the leading edge of the clubface is vertical/pointing to the sky and the shaft is parrallel to the target line, if the clubface is closed here then it will most likely be closed at the top of the backswing. If you have a watch on you left hand try getting it to point in front of you instead of towards the ground as it would if the clubface is closed

Simon Woo · #26 (**permalink**) 02-23-2007, 03:21 PM

Have you seen some people swing by keeping the clubface closed the whole time, or rather the face is always facing the ball/swing path (not sure if that means closed all the time?) I think it's quite common among the Japanese. I've seen some very consistent (and relatively long) shots this way..

jambalaya · #27 (**permalink**) 02-23-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Woo

Have you seen some people swing by keeping the clubface closed the whole time, or rather the face is always facing the ball/swing path (not sure if that means closed all the time?) I think it's quite common among the Japanese. I've seen some very consistent (and relatively long) shots this way..

Yes, cmays calls this the square-to-square method where you break the wrist back in the back swing.

BrianW · #28 (**permalink**) 02-23-2007, 04:17 PM

My view is that the clubface should stay square to the swingplane throughout the swing. Opening and closing it at various positions requires many adjustments that complicate the action and potentially create faults.

kbp · #29 (**permalink**) 02-23-2007, 08:50 PM

By "square" I assume you’re advocating the clubhead perpendicular to the swing path at address and impact and parallel to the swing path at the top, that is, allowing the club head to open and close based on the natural and unrestricted rotation of the arms during the swing, right?

tonyc9 · #30 (**permalink**) 02-24-2007, 12:20 AM

I do beleive that the best amatuer golfer I have seen who was still shooting in low 70's when he was 65 had a closed club face during the whole swing. As long as you swing in to out, dont swing too fast and have stiff shafts you can do it. Just look what Ray Floyd did in his time on the tour.

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