George Knudson and his swing

I borrowed that book from the library. It was pretty good. But just like the Hogan book, it was long on written descriptions and short on pictures.

Knudson was a Canadian hero in the golf sphere. And, God rest his soul, an excellent anti-smoking spokesperson.

I think this merits a more balanced approach, IE ,more constructive with less antagonism. Many great players have been proponents of active hands,Tommy Armour, Sam Snead , Bobby Jones,and, dare I say it, Ben Hogan. Hogan talked of pronation and supination. How this can be carried out with completely passive hands or forearms beats me.

An old acquaintance of mine when asked how he hit such long and straight drives considered for a minute then replied " I just put it on the tee and twat it up the fairway" I guess he had been to shootins school of golf

thats my goal brian, rather then try to swing I want to just play the game

From page 52 of "The Natural Golf Swing" by George Knudson

The Theory of the Natural Swing -

It is important to emphasize that we do nothing consciously with the hands, wrists and arms during the motion. They merely extend symmetrically from the centre and move due to the body motion. Footwork carries the body. This promotes clubhead security and guarantees a constant blade angle throughout the swing. There's no need to manipulate the clubhead. Proper footwork promotes a constant blade angle.

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From page 44 of "The Natural Golf Swing" by George Knudson

Winning Phoenix and Tucson -

Tuscon -
On the seventeenth, I hit a shot within a foot of the hole. On the eighteenth, a 465-yard four-par, I hit a driver, six-iron. The other guys were coming in with four-woods and long irons.

I think the key word in your quote is "consciously". Of course the hands play a role but mostly in set up and address when we are gripping the club and setting the shaft angle. I too have come to the realization that I am manipulating the club with hands and arms way too much despite the fact that I tell myself otherwise. I am now accepting that body motion whips the arms around the torso in the swing and one has to let that happen. This article supplied some much needed information for me regarding tension in the arms, hands and shoulders which prevent the arms from swinging freely:

http://www.paulwilsongolf.com/golf_tip_16.htm

I hope this is not another fruitless quest for me but it is definitely a big change for me. Watching someone describe the one-piece takeaway always brought to my mind keeping a rigid triangle ecompassing the hands, arms and shoulders. A lot of us have problems with coming over the top. I have been thinking, and I hope I am right, that tension in the arms, hands and shoulders that cause us to manipulate the club instead of letting it swing freely is a major cause of the OTP move

in cracking a whip some people will do this without any conscious hand movement. In casting a fishing pole the same thing. In swinging a golf club the same thing. But the hands do transmit speed to the whip, pole, or club.

From page 57 of "The Natural Golf Swing" by George Knudson

The Swing Motion -

Why do we transfer weight and rotate during the loading motion as opposed to, for example, picking up the club and swinging it along a path? The answer, clearly, is that weight transfer is the most effective means of moving the clubhead so that we can create inertia in the clubhead. We don't want to consciously use our hands, arms, or shoulders since this destroys the integrity of the motion. And so we transfer weight. This removes any conscious hand action from the motion.

My friend was taught by George and he always said the motto or mantra was "If you want to be massive you must be passive"

Listen to what Jim Flick says about the swing:

The idea is to swing the golf club, not hit the ball. A hit requires a sudden application of power. A swing involves a gradual acceleration of speed that culminates at the most desired time, which is impact.

Am I saying that the golf swing is exclusively the work of your hands and arms? Absolutely not. What I am saying is that the turning elements -- the shoulders, hips, and legs -- should respond to the swinging elements -- the hands, wrists, arms, and the instrument [the golf club].

Simply put, the swing turns the body both ways, backward and forward. The body does not turn the swing.

This seems the opposite of what Knudson suggests but I am not so sure? I just think golf instructors in the quest to describe the basic elements of the swing come up with descriptions that sound different but actually are the same. This of course confuses the hell out of everybody.

From page 57 of "The Natural Golf Swing" by George Knudson

Centrifugal Force -

Centrifugal Force is powerful. It pulls the golf club outward and downward as the player moves toward the target. It can generate club speeds of more than one hundred m.p.h. and gives the player a feeling of tremendous energy. Moreover, the wider the arc of the swing, the more power generated, and, ultimately, the greater the distance the ball will travel.

hey jam
I disagree with what flick says, and I know you were just putting it out there so my post is just for thinking and learnings sake. put yourself on tape throwing a ball. does the arm move back first or does the body. in taking a step, what moves first, the foot or the body allowing the foot to move? In some swings people move the hands first but I would say that is an unatural motion. The science of walking, and I will say I am 99.99999999% sure of this even though I have never read an article on walking, will tell you the body moves before the foot. You must contract and release muscles in the upper leg to pick up the foot, well you must contract and release muscles in the lower back and stomach area to allow the musscles of the leg to move. you know the song, the hip bone connected to the, leg bone, the leg bone connected to the .......

hold your right hand out in front, palm up with fingers spread, now bend and relax any finger and you will see movement in your forearm, because the finger does not move first but rather a muscle much further away from the finger

what is my point, I beleive the body moves first and the hands last. The body encourages the swinging of the arms, as it does in the lifting of a foot when we walk. The foot and arms do not move the body, the body moves them. That is my opinion and I am just putting it out there for people to think about. For all we know I could be wrong, and on some things concerning life I probably am, is this one of them?

Good luck in the search
neil

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always do something different, explore the possibilities, and enjoy the journey

G, I step aside on this for you. While I got two swings in the back pocket and a piece of wood in the front pocket that I am still doing some carving on, I imagine you have a little more of a tool belt then I do. I understand how to make an all arm swing, two types actually. One where i only pull the right arm and then push it at the ball, this puts my mass behind the ball cause I am driving with all I got in that right arm. this maxes out for me around 240 carry, annother where I just use all arms and have forearm rotation and this gives me about 20 more yards of carry. So yes I should have stated that there is more then one way. I proabably dont have either of those two completly maxed out though. Maybe one day I will work on getting the two swings in my back pocket to have some more speed.

in your opinion mays, do you see jims concepts as a natural motion? When it comes down to it there are three ways, all arms, all body, and arms and body. I think option number three would be the most ideal, the most natural, and the longest, your thoughts?

Oh, and to correct you, it would not have been five years ago that I would have said that, that was only 4 months ago One person at the same seminar I saw thomas at said he only got one thing out of the whole seminar, that is crazy casue it help to change my whole understanding

__________________
always do something different, explore the possibilities, and enjoy the journey

I would say you are correct in your analysis of muscle and body movement shootin. I don't think a literal interpretation of what Flick said tells the story. There is some gap in his explanation because if what he says is true I have been doing it right all this time with very mixed results. If I have a heavy weight in my hands and I try to throw it without letting go, my body is going to be pulled by the weight. So in that sense arms swinging around the body especially with a club in hand gets a reaction from the other parts. But is that all there is to it. Turning the shoulders and letting the arms fly around the torso is a lot different than trying to start with the hands. To make the hands move first one has to tighten the grip, the arms and the shoulders.

I don't like Flick's explanation even though in his mind, what he really means, and what other people interpret it to mean could be exactly correct. I just don't see it at this point.

my basic thought, go film yourself throwing stones, at other people , and see what your body does, swing a sledge hammer, etc.... and the body motion you use in those use in the golf swing. How many ****py looking baseball swings do you see, not near the extent of the golf swing