Iron Swing / Wood Swing

You can still have a square club face and hit a slice. If you come over the top you can still put that spin on the ball to make it slice, just not as much as if your club face was open.

I'm really done arguing about it because golf is a game of what works for you. What i posted works for me and I was merely trying to provide the starter of this topic with the info that helped me for the sake that it could possibly help him but its not assured.

But all I get is responses like you got your head way up your ass and you dont know what your talking about.

...and you called my coach a liar when he obviously knows what hes talking about

__________________
Gator's Bag:
Driver: TaylorMade Burner 10.5 UST Proforce V2
Wood: Nike Sasquatch 3 Wood
Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 3 I-Wood 20*
Irons: Nike CCI Forged 4-PW
Wedges: 52* Nike SV Tour, 56* Titleist Vokey Spin Milled, 60* Callaway X Forged
Putter: Ping Karsten Series Anser

Guys thanks for the useful debate. I found today that, with my irons, taking the face back closed and having an upright swing really helped me hit down on my irons and I was hitting my Pitching Wedge 115-125 an increase of 15 yards. Like has been said what works for you. I'm not sure I'll be able to do the same with the woods and think I may have to work on having an upright swing for my irons and and flatter one for my woods. I have a medicus swing trainer and swing that great but not with the new "closed clubface" approach. I'm sure it looks terrible as well but I reckon I'll be hitting many more greens.....as long as I can hit the fairway now with my woods. Worked for chips and out of the sand as well.

Good luck bro. Irons are what you score with, woods are what you impress your friends with. If you can get it into the fairway and are great with your irons you will beat the guy that drives it 290 but has no short game. If you have to, hit an iron off the tee like a 3 iron if you control it better than a wood, and just play the hole to get on with a long iron or get on in 3 and hope to get up an down with great iron play for a par. And at the worse youd get a bogey which isn't the worst thing that can happen.

__________________
Gator's Bag:
Driver: TaylorMade Burner 10.5 UST Proforce V2
Wood: Nike Sasquatch 3 Wood
Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 3 I-Wood 20*
Irons: Nike CCI Forged 4-PW
Wedges: 52* Nike SV Tour, 56* Titleist Vokey Spin Milled, 60* Callaway X Forged
Putter: Ping Karsten Series Anser

Yes you could, but if your clubface wasn't open to begin with there would be no need for you to come over the top.

I don't know that it is possible to hit a slice with a square clubface.
Seems to me that a square face and an outside in swing produces a pull.

Whatever works for you dude, that is cool. I am not trying to flame, I just think the one plane two plane thing is uneccesary and will cloud up the mind of a golfer who is trying to improve a part of his/her game.

__________________
Cleveland HiBore Tour
Mizuno MP-32 irons
Titleist Vokey SW/LW
Cameron Studio Stainless Newport 2

"The 9 laws of ball flight" are OK - a good starting point. However, we get sidespin when the FACE is NOT SQUARE to the PATH. Target, shmarget. It has no bearing on how sidespin is created. ANY TIME you get a face open to the path, you have cut spin - no matter where that path is headed. As such, any time the face is closed relative to the path, you get draw spin.

The push-slice (a ball that starts right and bends right) is an inside-out swing path, with a face open to the path.

Gatorguy - I'm glad that your swing is working for you. Really, I am. I worry about folks reading a post like that and going 'oh - my cure is simply to swing flatter!' - because that alone will not get the job done.

__________________
True Length Technology Fitter - www.truelengthtechnology.com
It's live! - www.ShipShapeClubs.com
PCS Class 'A' Clubfitter

A new highlight: Golfing the home course on Christmas Day.

I say it too often: If it's golf club shaped, you can play with it.

For the record, I'm a club doctor, not a swing doctor.

Yeah i know i just get defensive when i get called an "idiot" or it gets implied lol. Sorry for going nuts I just dont like it when ppl talk to me like that that's all.

LP, you are spot on. The ball will travel in the direction of the swingpath, if the clubface is set at an angle contrary to the direction of the swingpath then counter spin will be created and that will bend the ball flight, either left, right, up or down. You only have to listen to what the ball tells us.

Someone said in an earlier post that I may have been swatting at the ball. Well done that is exactly what I have been doing, swatting down on the ball with my irons which has worked but almost impossible to time with the woods. I played a medal today shot 53 on the front and then remembered the "right hand drill" Firmed up my wrist and started cocking properly and shot a 40 on the back soooooooo the whole talk of taking back closed etc was just an incorrect swing thought and reverted back to swattting. Thanks all.

Chuck

Hey Chuck, I am curious, what makes you think those two are related. Again, I am guessing here because I have not seen your swing, but I don't think taking the club back closed (less open) necessarily leads to swatting.

CMays:

I followed your analogy just fine......certainly the angle at which we hit the ball coupled with the torque and bend of the shaft dictates the need to move to something better suited to striking the golfball off the tee than say a ball of yarn spiked with grandmas lucky needles... so yes..... well stated.

( wispering here....) even though todays wood shapes are in effect, hollow (aka perimeter weighted) in design those crazy engineers still strive to place the weight low and back away from the clubface to create what is supposed to be the optimum launch conditions. Does all this work???? I have to say I do see quite a few drives launched nicely into the trees at many a course so maybe all that old reallocated cold war technology is paying off......by the way I hear Russian titanium is better than US titanium....

Thanks,
Tim

J,

For me I tried to take the club back closed with my irons as it was working for me however, rather than then cocking my wrists correctly I continued back and returned with a swattting motion. As soon as I realised I was not cocking my wrists correctly I ensured I kept my right wrist solid (aka right hand drill) and was great off the tee again and with fairway woods. I did chunk my irons though.....I'm afraid its back to the old drawing board for me.

Chuck

Remember to cock the left wrist and cup/bend the right wrist straight back. Do not cock the right wrist (that opens the clubface). From the top let your pivot (hip slide/turn) deliver your hands PAST the ball and your clubhead to it. That should help with the swatting motion.

Good luck bud.

JB

It sounds like you figured out why they were all 'featherweight'... No weight added back to bring it closer to D0.

As for your interesting question:

If you take your favourite shaft, I can mismatch a head much worse than if you take your favourite head and I try to mismatch the shaft. Therefore, I would vote clubhead makes for a better fitted club.

LP: some time ago you were experimenting with whether the face or the swing path had more influence on the initial direction of the ball.

Your evidence at one point was somewhat contrary to the conventional wisdom e.g. "face causes direction path causes spin" rather than conventional "path causes direcion face causes spin".

I take it from this latest post you're back on the conventional wisdom side of the fence?

No sir, not at all. In fact, folks like Ralph Maltby seem to agree with folks like Tom Wishon (and I agree with them). Having just passed the PCS Fitters exam (part one), some of the required reading discussed ball flight and ball direction. The thing one needs to watch for while discussing ball flight is what the RELATIVE comparison is. My argument had nothing to do with target, merely the relation of the face and the path.

It works at high spped, low speed - even in reverse (read: left handed). Face angle at impact is the primary determiner of direction, with path being secondary. I've tested it.

The greater the deviation between path and face angle, the greater sidespin is achieved (although I don't think anyone is debating this).

@Cmays: The best feeling club I ever swung was H1. I couldn't swing it very fast, but I also couldn't miss the middle of the face!

__________________
True Length Technology Fitter - www.truelengthtechnology.com
It's live! - www.ShipShapeClubs.com
PCS Class 'A' Clubfitter

A new highlight: Golfing the home course on Christmas Day.

I say it too often: If it's golf club shaped, you can play with it.

For the record, I'm a club doctor, not a swing doctor.