Intents and purpose

jamesh · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 06:44 AM

Generally speaking, when using a 6 iron and up – if you position the golf ball before the bottom of your swing – can you be considered “hitting down” on the ball? I am just attempting to simplify the notion of striking down on the ball.

Thanks,

James

BrianW · #2 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 10:43 AM

Hi James,

I take it when you say 6 iron and up you mean a 7, 8, 9 etc ?

If that is the case then you should indeed be hitting down into the ball with these irons, although you only need to have the ball placed midway between your heels (Not toes). To ensure you are striking down allow your weight to favour the front leg as the irons get shorter, you can do this by positioning your sternum (chest bone) a little ahead of the ball.

Your club will bottom out just inside your left armpit for a right hander so the position I have just explained will allow the club to strike the ball on a downward arc then hit the ground making a divot just in front of the ball.

oldwease · #3 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 01:03 PM

I think you should be hitting down into the ball with EVERY fairway club , though the angle of attack will be more shallow the longer the shaft. The fairway wood is included in this.

Basically, your swing should bottom out below your left shoulder / armpit. It's not a bad idea to align the ball with your left ear (for right handers) for iron shots.

kbp · #4 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 03:39 PM

In theory, your swing may bottom out in line with where your left armpit is at AT IMPACT. Please note that this may not be precisely the same location of the left armpit AT ADDRESS. Another factor, in some swings, is that the left shoulder may actually be moving upward, to some degree, just before and during impact, so the lowest point of the swing may actually occur behind the left armpit, more to the center of the body.

The arm swing may be centered on the left armpit but that center is also moving up and down, in and out, forward and backward.. The golf swing is a dynamic series of events.

BrianW · #5 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbp

In theory, your swing may bottom out in line with where your left armpit is at AT IMPACT. Please note that this may not be precisely the same location of the left armpit AT ADDRESS. Another factor, in some swings, is that the left shoulder may actually be moving upward, to some degree, just before and during impact, so the lowest point of the swing may actually occur behind the left armpit, more to the center of the body.

The arm swing may be centered on the left armpit but that center is also moving up and down, in and out, forward and backward.. The golf swing is a dynamic series of events.

That's a bit too complicated for anyone to focus on

As I said! If you place the ball between your heels with mid to short irons and position the sternum so that the centre of gravity is in relation to the type of shot required then you should be in good shape.

takinitdeep · #6 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 06:58 PM

In order to strike the ball first, it is important not to move off of the ball and to stay centered while pivoting mainly from the waist up. What they now call stack and tilt is just a restatement of a center based swing.
Tilt less for mid to short irons, more for long irons and woods but in all cases no sway and good shoulder turn.
I like ball position a few inches inside the left heel then just widen or narrow the stance depending on what club is being used.
The hands stay ahead prior to impact to create lag.

kbp · #7 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianW

That's a bit too complicated for anyone to focus on

Maybe you should consider limiting your advice if the topic is too complicated for you to think about.

To answer the OP’s question directly.......yes! Find your swing bottom at IMPACT and place the ball just behind that point for normal short iron shots.

BrianW · #8 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takinitdeep

In order to strike the ball first, it is important not to move off of the ball and to stay centered while pivoting mainly from the waist up. What they now call stack and tilt is just a restatement of a center based swing.
Tilt less for mid to short irons, more for long irons and woods but in all cases no sway and good shoulder turn.
I like ball position a few inches inside the left heel then just widen or narrow the stance depending on what club is being used.
The hands stay ahead prior to impact to create lag.

Yes, Right on TID

BrianW · #9 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbp

Maybe you should consider limiting your advice if the topic is too complicated for you to think about.

How old are you?

kbp · #10 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 10:07 PM

Old enough to know how to get my PM s. In the future, if would like to direct any more condescending remarks at me, I would appreciate it if you would use the PM function.

Back on topic. I’m trying to make a simple point. The position of your left armpit at impact is not the same as it is at address. If a person is trying to determine the bottom of the swing arc strictly relative to the left armpit, they should consider where their left armpit is at impact.

BrianW · #11 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbp

Old enough to know how to get my PM s. In the future, if would like to direct any more condescending remarks at me, I would appreciate it if you would use the PM function.

Back on topic. I’m trying to make a simple point. The position of your left armpit at impact is not the same as it is at address. If a person is trying to determine the bottom of the swing arc strictly relative to the left armpit, they should consider where their left armpit is at impact.

OK Pal that's clear enough! Your following comment was a bit uncalled for though.

"Maybe you should consider limiting your advice if the topic is too complicated for you to think about.

"

takinitdeep · #12 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 11:35 PM

Are you advocating using the left armpit as a directional or mechanical solution to the swing low point?
What exactly are you advocating?
What are your qualifications?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbp

Old enough to know how to get my PM s. In the future, if would like to direct any more condescending remarks at me, I would appreciate it if you would use the PM function.

Back on topic. I’m trying to make a simple point. The position of your left armpit at impact is not the same as it is at address. If a person is trying to determine the bottom of the swing arc strictly relative to the left armpit, they should consider where their left armpit is at impact.

takinitdeep · #13 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 11:37 PM

I just looked at your profile: very impressive: nothing listed and you don't have a handicap? Does your mommy know you are online?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbp

Old enough to know how to get my PM s. In the future, if would like to direct any more condescending remarks at me, I would appreciate it if you would use the PM function.

Back on topic. I’m trying to make a simple point. The position of your left armpit at impact is not the same as it is at address. If a person is trying to determine the bottom of the swing arc strictly relative to the left armpit, they should consider where their left armpit is at impact.

takinitdeep · #14 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 11:50 PM

Staying centered over the ball, not swaying on bs, and maintaining the right wrist angle at impact allows one to place the ball anywhere one wants but I wouldn't advise it. Ball placement can be used for specialty shots when one needs to create certain shots in unusual situations.
Its the width of the stance that determines what ball position does for the player but mostly ball position never changes much. At most we are only talking a few inches here and there.
Get some more rum, I'm coming to visit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmays

You need to hit down to compress the ball.

Now say you swung back in your backswing, did your little pump down, say left hand is in line with right thigh (right hander), wrist remains hinged if the ball was right of the right foot say a few inches, you would have a earlier release then if the ball was placed in the middle of the stance or lin line with the left toe or outside the left toe by a few inches.

The further you move the ball to the left the more sweeping action you will have. You will have loft. Some great players would have a sweeping action. Jack Nicklaus had some of the highest loft on tour, he played off of the inside of the left heel. Even in a sweeping action there is some downward action.

We also know the further to the right the clubface will remain open unless we have a closed clubface on the way down or the stronger grip which is one in the same. Now you have also decresed loft of the club.

One Coffee, 2 Sugars and a Little Rum Please.

kbp · #15 (**permalink**) 06-05-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianW

OK Pal that's clear enough! Your following comment was a bit uncalled for though.
"Maybe you should consider limiting your advice if the topic is too complicated for you to think about.

"

As was yours which preceded it. Putting a smiley at the end of a sarcastic and condescending remark doesn’t change the dismissive nature of your comment. I thought we were here to discuss, not poo-poo anything as "too complicated" that doesn’t fit into over-simplified tips. Mr. Cmays, for one, has to tiptoe around and apologize ahead of time if he wants to explain something deeper than third grade level.

I realize that Nicklaus, amongst others, is an advocate of your opinions on ball position. Other top professionals and instructors are not. I can read canned generic golf instruction from a hundred sources, with much of it contradicting each other, but I prefer to teach and learn through understanding and analysis. Is it necessary to squelch all discussion that goes beyond "golf magazine" simplification and generalization?

If I have misunderstood your comments or your intention, I sincerely apologize.

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