Weight transfer ?

jambalaya · #46 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnearn

Personally I dont lift my arms and hands at all because I dont have the traditional '2 plane' swing. I just turn my torso keeping my left arm connected to the chest. Head cover stays attached for all of my backswing as I try and keep it short and wide - indeed if it doesnt it means im actovely lifting the arms which I dont want to do

IF I do this and I ensure that I turn my torso between my feet I will be on or just below the shoulder plane and then I can just bump and turn through aggresively and it all works. My big problem was swaying - this is where I think this stack and tilt thing has been good but mis-understood. If you watch the pros who supposedly do this (Zach Johnson, Baddely etc) they all just make sure they keep more weight on the front leg as they turn to ensure the right hip turns behind them, the weoght stays on the inside of the right foot, the head is still and and they stay centered or over the ball at the top- there is defintely no spine tilt toward the target. Im finding my right leg straightens a little to allow this but im fine with that. The weight transfer is then really easy - just a bump and the arms come down into the ball without me needing to do anything (i.e. no active release, flip etc)

Explain something further for me. Saying that you "keep your left arm connected to your chest" implies that your "triangle" basically wraps around your body. Or at least your left arm. Is that what happens in the one plane swing?

RandomHero1090 · #47 (**permalink**) 03-04-2008, 05:07 PM

Pnearn has made so many good points in the last couple posts i've lost count. So many people would benefit from a 3/4 turn staying wide and connected.

Jam... You are spot on IMO. With a One Plane Swing, you swing the clubhead more "around" you. The left arm stays connected to the chest. Yes, you cannot make a HUGE backswing, but you don't have to. The more flexible you are, the more you can turn.

The left are does "wrap" around the body. However, the clubhead doesn't WHIP to the inside. It's more of a torso turn. Zach Johnson is a perfect example of this. Look at this article...

http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...623631,00.html

Really great stuff in here. Click on "How to birdie more Par 5s." You will see stills of his swing. Look at the left arm position at different points of the swing.

I think Zach has a great swing to emulate. He might not crush the ball, but he works a great draw and is very accurate.

pnearn · #48 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambalaya

Explain something further for me. Saying that you "keep your left arm connected to your chest" implies that your "triangle" basically wraps around your body. Or at least your left arm. Is that what happens in the one plane swing?

Yes, I guess so. I like to set up with the feeling that my upper arms are really pinned to my chest, as if I dont and im reaching (even a little) then i'll turn it inside (wrap it around as you say) and come OTT on the DS and hit pulls. Personally I struggle with this constantly. Setting up closer to the ball isnt pure OPS as taught by Hardy but as Random says guys like Zach, Vijay and even Tiger have erect stances and elements of the OPS. Personally I cant see how Hardy can hit it like that unless your 5ft 1 but hey ho !

If I set up like this, and make a good pivot I will feel my left arm ride up my chest whilst still staying 'pinned'. My arms stop when my pivot stops hence the 3/4 wide position. No additional lifting or 'setting' with the wrists etc. From there I can just rotate back on the DS with the feeling that my body pulls that left arm/flat left wrist into the back of the ball. No hands, no flipping, no active release

Works for me .. most of the time

jambalaya · #49 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnearn

Yes, I guess so. I like to set up with the feeling that my upper arms are really pinned to my chest, as if I dont and im reaching (even a little) then i'll turn it inside (wrap it around as you say) and come OTT on the DS and hit pulls. Personally I struggle with this constantly. Setting up closer to the ball isnt pure OPS as taught by Hardy but as Random says guys like Zach, Vijay and even Tiger have erect stances and elements of the OPS. Personally I cant see how Hardy can hit it like that unless your 5ft 1 but hey ho !

If I set up like this, and make a good pivot I will feel my left arm ride up my chest whilst still staying 'pinned'. My arms stop when my pivot stops hence the 3/4 wide position. No additional lifting or 'setting' with the wrists etc. From there I can just rotate back on the DS with the feeling that my body pulls that left arm/flat left wrist into the back of the ball. No hands, no flipping, no active release

Works for me .. most of the time

The part of your statement bolded above explains what I am seeing when I look at examples of a "one-plane" swing. Because there actually is lifting of the arms in a one-plane swing but in a different manner than the "two-plane. Your plane does actually change but it is in line with the shoulder and is not as much as a straight lifting up of the arms. In my opinion, Moe Norman's swing is a lot closer to an actual one plane swing. His arms are stretched out and he is bent over so that the arms are almost in line with the shoulder plane at address.

pnearn · #50 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambalaya

The part of your statement bolded above explains what I am seeing when I look at examples of a "one-plane" swing. Because there actually is lifting of the arms in a one-plane swing but in a different manner than the "two-plane. Your plane does actually change but it is in line with the shoulder and is not as much as a straight lifting up of the arms. In my opinion, Moe Norman's swing is a lot closer to an actual one plane swing. His arms are stretched out and he is bent over so that the arms are almost in line with the shoulder plane at address.

I would agree. The way I see a one plane swing is that you must bend over a LOT from the hips. Keep the arms pinned to the chest but bend a lot. You then turn the shoulders back and turn them through. The swing will be a lot more circular but the arms will move up as the forearm rotates. There is very little hip motion and no dropping of the arms on the DS. I've see people try to swing with a OPS stand too tall and then the shoulder turn on the DS is too level meaning they come over the top. I struggle with this personally

I think a lot of people (myself included) have elements of both. I dont feel like I stretch my arms out. I feel like my arms are tight to the chest but the bend from the hips takes me back from the ball. Then piviot back, arm on the chest, left arm rotating. I find if i do this im under the shoulder plane but then im only 3/4 of the way back so I would expect to be

Then a powerful torso turn with my left wrist held flat coming down

BrianW · #51 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnearn

I would agree. The way I see a one plane swing is that you must bend over a LOT from the hips. Keep the arms pinned to the chest but bend a lot. You then turn the shoulders back and turn them through. The swing will be a lot more circular but the arms will move up as the forearm rotates. There is very little hip motion and no dropping of the arms on the DS. I've see people try to swing with a OPS stand too tall and then the shoulder turn on the DS is too level meaning they come over the top. I struggle with this personally

I think a lot of people (myself included) have elements of both. I dont feel like I stretch my arms out. I feel like my arms are tight to the chest but the bend from the hips takes me back from the ball. Then piviot back, arm on the chest, left arm rotating. I find if i do this im under the shoulder plane but then im only 3/4 of the way back so I would expect to be

Then a powerful torso turn with my left wrist held flat coming down

I have been studying Moe Normans swing recently and the way to setup address is to take the club, stand straight up with your arms and the club straight out in front of you, lower your arms until the upper arms make contact with your chest, keep the arms there and bend from the hips until the club meets the ground. The arms and wrists should stay straight so the left arm forms a straight line with the clubshaft.

pnearn · #52 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 09:41 AM

This guys swing is probably the nearest approximation of what I try to do

You Tube

Note the following

Back Swing is on one plane but the left arm does rise a little
Still finishes below his shoulder plane
BS is wide and only 3/4 length. Arms stop when body turn stops
Shoulder turns aggressively from top on DS
Flat left wrist is maintained throughout DS
Left arm stay connected through the whole swing
Follow through is back to the inside - not down the target line.
No 'extension' or shake hands with the target

To me this is a simple, low maintainence, repeatble swing which is why im working hard on it. They key thing is to stay bent over at the transition to avoid too flat a shoulder turn and OTT, ensure the left wrist stays flat coming down and trust that you need to swing well to the inside on the follow thriugh (swing to left field) to maimtain the circular motion of the club head around the body - this is actually quite hard when you struggle with pulls (I know first hand

) but you need to learn to trust it and i think this is what puts a lot of people off when they first try it

BrianW · #53 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnearn

This guys swing is probably the nearest approximation of what I try to do

I like Geoff Ritter and also have studied his swing.
Here is another video of him

You Tube

I am working on a rotary swing and the concept works well with the 3 skills principles. I keep looking at Moe Norman's swing and can see that the less moving parts and the more you can keep on the original plane the better the chance of consistent ball striking.

barney44 · #54 (**permalink**) 03-11-2008, 06:04 PM

The release and turn of the torqued lower body will create some lateral shifting, but I don't think that it should be a conscious action.

jbrunk · #55 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barney44

The release and turn of the torqued lower body will create some lateral shifting, but I don't think that it should be a conscious action.

I agree with barney. If you have done a correct backswing pivot, the left leg "counterfalls" when you reach the top.

Cliff · #56 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barney44

The release and turn of the torqued lower body will create some lateral shifting, but I don't think that it should be a conscious action.

It would help many players to understand that the transfer of weight at the top of the swing is a conscious effort at first, until you make a repetitive swing that allows it to be part of the process of muscle memory. So many players these days old and young transfer weight too late in the swing if any at all, leaving a short follow through as they make the move too late.

For those many players a conscious effort is required.

And for those golfers itching to find/change there swing because they have found a new hidden piece of the puzzle. (Today’s cure will be tomorrows fault) this is without doubt the most important part of puzzle you are likely to learn in golf!

Regards Cliff

jambalaya · #57 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff

It would help many players to understand that the transfer of weight at the top of the swing is a conscious effort at first, until you make a repetitive swing that allows it to be part of the process of muscle memory. So many players these days old and young transfer weight too late in the swing if any at all, leaving a short follow through as they make the move too late.

For those many players a conscious effort is required.

And for those golfers itching to find/change there swing because they have found a new hidden piece of the puzzle. (Today’s cure will be tomorrows fault) this is without doubt the most important part of puzzle you are likely to learn in golf!

Regards Cliff

That describes me especially on the driver. I have to consciously feel the weight on the inside of the front foot before making the transtion. But if one of you other guys could tell me a way to make that automatic I would love it. Tell me how to make the coil in the backswing determine my weight shift to the left leg.

jambalaya · #58 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbrunk

I agree with barney. If you have done a correct backswing pivot, the left leg "counterfalls" when you reach the top.

Then what am I or the average golfer doing wrong that doesn't result in a "counterfall"?

Neil18 · #59 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambalaya

Then what am I or the average golfer doing wrong that doesn't result in a "counterfall"?

Hey Jamb,

I'm not too sure what "counterfall" refers to for the lead leg. Could we have an explanation please jbrunk? I think it means that the lead leg will automatically take the weight shift forwards if the backswing is done correctly

I am of the opinion that the sequence and type of movements in the backswing set the body up to allow the correct movements in the downswing. If the wrong order has been stacked on the way back, it can't allow for the right order to be unloaded in the downswing.

It's all very complex if we get into what parts of the body cause other parts to move, or muscle groups to become active. Unless you want one of my 1000 word dissertations on my thoughts

, suffice it to say that the backswing, in my view, should be done in a manner that allows the hips to move across and tilt slightly away from the target, and the lead knee to go out toward the target to support the weight shift at the start of the downswing.

IMO, only a certain sequence of movements in the backswing can allow this to happen naturally, regardless of whether you're a one or two planer.

BrianW · #60 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambalaya

That describes me especially on the driver. I have to consciously feel the weight on the inside of the front foot before making the transtion. But if one of you other guys could tell me a way to make that automatic I would love it. Tell me how to make the coil in the backswing determine my weight shift to the left leg.

This is the best drill I know to ingrain the correct sensation of weight shift.

The Step Through Drill

Address a mid iron with the ball centre of stance. Move the lead foot back so that it is against or very near the trail foot. Make a smooth backswing and just as you are about to reach the top move your front foot back to it's normal position then swing down and through. Pick up on the sensation of your weight shifting early in the transition.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Register Now for FREE!
You have not yet registered on GTO. Sign up for FREE INSTANTLY and gain full access, just fill out the form below! Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail: I agree to forum rules