Increasing Distance

Bill,

Here is another site that has some views on whether acceleration effects distance:

http://www.patryangolf.com/2006/pat_...club_myths.htm

Call me a major skeptic but that dosen't seem to line up at all with the basic law of physics. Mass X Velocity Squared.

From "The Search for the Perfect Swing". A scientific study of golf.

"An important consequence of the inability of the player to exert any positive influence on the ball during impact , is this: The only dynamic factor that matters in producing distance is clubhead speed. A given clubhead making square contact with the ball at 100 miles per hour will send it the same distance whether it is accelerating, slowing down or moving a constant speed."

I realize the book is an older publication however physics are physics. Unless the article you sited can explain how the law of physics (in this case E = MC Squared) dosen't apply in hitting a golf ball I will remain a skeptic.

Best Wishes

hi Maxx
but e = mc squared does not take into the equation that golf balls compress and has a spring effect due to its makeup and has a ratting for 0 to 200. 0 being no compression and 200 being 2/10th compression meaning 2/10th of the ball flattens against the club face.
if you use a 0 compression ball then there is no compression and e = MC sq does apply. when the ball does compress it also gives the ball a spring effect when the flattened side of the ball pushes of the club face to regain its shape.

also we can have a club head hit the ball at 120 mph and hit on the sweet spot and it will travel 250 yards in the air, hit at the same speed but 1/3 of an inch right or left of the sweet spot and you can lose 10 yards but the swing speed is the same. so still e = mc sq
it also like the high handicap golfer is better with a 2 piece high compression ball as it compresses less and spins less. but the pro golfer wants more compression and used an 80 or 90 compression and he gets maxim spin and distance form the softer ball and also more backspin to give lift and stop on the green.
what the study was pointing out was if you take almost all the top brand balls and use "iron man" to hit the balls there is only a few feet of difference from all the balls used.
there is a great deal of difference with a poorer swing we don't maintain the speed through impact and it the ball sticking to the club face for that fraction of a second that changes the balls response.

that why you can have a guy with a slower swing speed hit the ball longer. even though distance depends of swing speed. it also has to take in where on the club face the ball is hit, is the club face is open or closed a little and if the swing is across the ball or square.
that all have to be taken into the equation and it was only the development of the new version of Iron man that they could reproduce the slowing swing through impact.
i do think it has an effect as i have seen people with fast swing but no better distance than someone with a slow speed. there could be other reasons but i do think that the handicap player does not maintain the speed of the club through impact like the pro golfers can, and i don't just mean drivers i mean all clubs, wedges as well. i think there quality of striking comes form sweet spot hitting and not losing as much speed through the impact zone.
i wish i knew how we handicap players could do that and I'm still looking to see and understand why we lose more speed through the impact zone.
to me it makes sense if you only lose 10 mph through impact then you will hit longer than a guy with the same swing speed but loses 20 mph through impact. and if that guy loses 50% more speed than you at impact then it also makes sense that he might also compress the ball less too and that could also add to his loss of distance and to his distance not being constant.
i think more research should be done and i have looked for it and BrianW has been a big help in many of his great links to golf information sites.
i don't know if you remember the rubber "wonder balls" you use to get when a child that bounced so high in the air, if you hit on with a golf club it went about 400 Yards. and it was all to do with the compression of the rubber.
its something I'm going to keep trying to find more about and if i do i will let you know and post the site here too.
cheers
bill

__________________
ping zing2 metal driver
ping zing2 metal 3 wood
ping eye2 1 iron
ping zing2 3/9 irons
ping ist 47% wedge
ping zing2 52% s/wedge
ping mb 56% wedge
ping c10 G2I broom handled putter
top flight "T" golf balls
white ping bag

Bill thanks for your reply.

The initial impact is what compresses the ball. True the ball will stay on the club face for about 3/4 of an inch and the ball will continue to compress. However the compression of ball is determined by impact. Were talking about a time frame of less then 1/2000th of a second from impact until the ball releases from the club face.
High speed photo will show the ball continuing to compress as it rides the club face. However this continued compression has been determined at the point of impact. Its merely riding the club face as it continues to compress from the initial impact.

Bill I don't quite follow what you are saying in the second paragraph. Sure a ball will lose distance if the ball is not hit in the sweet spot and different gall balls and compressions will go different distances. I don't see where this negates my contention in the first paragraph. That a ball direction distance has already been determined by initial impact.

I kind of believe the fast swing slow swing thing is an illusion. Your country club hack may look to be exerting every ouch of effort (swinging fast) and Fred Couples may look to be not exerting any effort (swinging slow). The point of impact tells a much different story as the fast swinging hack contacts the ball at 90mph while slow swinging Fred contacts it at 120 mph.

Thats another thing that I wonder about is if the article you read is true how can this be implemented in real life. No pros on tour yet with 90mph swings LOL

Best Wishes MaxxC

hi Maxx
not all the pro ladies have fast 120+ swings and many are still long hitters.
it the second part i was trying to say that even hitting the ball at 120 mph you will lose distance the more you hit away from the sweet spot. you still hit at the same speed and compress the ball the same but you lose distance.
i was trying to say that there are many things during the impact zone that effect the distance you hit and it's not just your swing speed. swing speed is one of the most important. i think one is that handicap players slow more when they contact the ball than pro golfers and one result is the the pro golfer gets more compression on the ball and as a result a cleaner strike through the impact zone.
what i have been think is maybe that the pros by swing so many times each day and hitting so many golf balls have not strengthened but more toned up the muscles of the fingers and wrists and forearms and that why they don't lose as much speed through the impact zone but thats just my idea.
i have only read one report about the loss of speed through the impact zone and i don't know if the report is true or false but i think it makes sense if you think about it. proving it is harder.
cheers
bill

__________________
ping zing2 metal driver
ping zing2 metal 3 wood
ping eye2 1 iron
ping zing2 3/9 irons
ping ist 47% wedge
ping zing2 52% s/wedge
ping mb 56% wedge
ping c10 G2I broom handled putter
top flight "T" golf balls
white ping bag

i'll take a stab at answering that: Newton's 3rd law

punch a guy while stepping into the punch and he is going to get hit hard.


now punch a guy while moving away from him. your hand can be moving just as fast but he will barley feel it becuase you are conteracting all of that force. that is why golfers must be grounded. newtons 3rd law i belive, equal and opposite. that ball hits back and if theres is nothing to hit agains the club head really slows down. where if the ball hits back and the impact is obsorbed through the arms the body down the legs to the feet and into the ground there is very little hit back and that is how pros do not loose as much speed in their DS

but, though your hand might be accelerating just as fast in both scenarios, the relative acceleration to the guys head is extremely differnt.

the firtst scenario the hand is accelerating from 0-30 mph to the guys face. the 2nd scenario the hand is accelerating 0-10 mph (depending how fast your body moves back) therfore the hit is so weak

its like instead of pulling back a bow and releasing it, its like pulling the bow toward you 2" as you release it, you just canceled out 2 inches of you back pull

in golf you don't nessisarily want the golf club head to accelerate, what you do want is the golf club head to accelerate relative to through the ball. that is why a revesre pivot is so terrible. if you are moving back and you throuw the club forward you might get 130 mph swing speed but only hit your driver 200yds becuase the relative speed is maybe 60 mph?

you will never see a long hitters hand behind the ball at impact, because that is counter-productive speed. that is why swing speed at the moment of impact isn't all that important, but rather swing speed through impact which is paramount.

i would be cool of some cameras could look at a swing face on and measure how fast the club head gets from relative BS to DS, i bet it is really high. and same for amatuers, i bet it is really low thought they both had swing speed of 130 the amateur's relative BS to DS is probly only 70 where the pro is probly around 100ish.

3rd law is also why you will never see a baseball players hands behind the ball at impact, that ball hits back A LOT harder than the golf ball. if you have ever played baseball and accidently hit the ball when the hands where behind it you get a very sore hand for a while as all of that impact whent into your hands only and the ball does not go very far.


no intent to insult your intelligence, i shouls probly rename myself to repeating guy since i do repeat my post about 3-4 times and make them unnessisarily too long, but that is just how i write so sorry again.